'Countdown with Keith Olbermann' for Wednesday, August 24th, 2010
video podcast
Video via YouTube: Hell No You Can't
Guests: Rep. Barney Frank, Mark Potok, Eric Burns, David Corn, Richard
Wolffe.
LAWRENCE O'DONNELL, GUEST HOST (voice-over): Which of these stories
will you be talking about tomorrow?
The health care reform backlash. Now that it's law, there is
bipartisan agreement that the overreaction to it is dangerous.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), MINORITY LEADER: The violence and threats
are unacceptable. It is not the American way.
REP. STENY HOYER (D-MD), MAJORITY LEADER: Democracy cannot survive
unless we have a civil society in which debate is open and free and
unfettered by threats.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
O'DONNELL: At least 10 Democrats faced threats; a brother of one
congressman has his home vandalized. Tonight, reaction from Congressman
Barney Frank, and a look at how the rhetoric over health care has sent some
protesters over the edge.
Now, the FOX noise machine tries to ignore health care.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLENN BECK, FOX NEWS HOST: While everybody else focuses on health
care, I want to look to the future. I want to tell you what's coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: Hey, Glenn, why don't you and your network focus on just
telling the truth?
Tonight, how the wingnut media helped stoke the violent reaction to
reform.
The reconciliation roadblocks - the Democrats call out the
Republicans for their final day of obstructionist tactics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You might call this the Republican version of
March Madness. They know it's going to end. They just want to drag it
out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: The latest from Capitol Hill as the voting on a flood of
amendments is underway in the Senate - where health care reform is still a
big (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deal.
And the look ahead to 2010. The GOP is ready with the slogans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: I think the slogan will
be "repeal and replace."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: But who's going to tell Republican Chuck Grassley to stop
bragging about helping write the bill?
And "Yes, we can" get some makeover.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we can.
BOEHNER: Hell, no, you can't!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: All that and more - now on Countdown.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BOEHNER: I must be confused.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'DONNELL: Good evening from New York. I'm Lawrence O'Donnell, in
for Keith Olbermann.
If you believe in democracy, you have to live with its outcomes, even
when you disagree with them. This week, a president who was elected on a
mandate of change signed into law a major health care reform bill that was
passed by a majority of the House and 60 percent of the Senate.
In the wake of that passage, acts of vandalism and threats of violence
have escalated against House members. It began with the racial epithets
and homophobic slurs hurled at members of the House during Saturday's tea
party protests on Capitol Hill and continued when Republican Randy
Neugebauer yelled "baby killer" at Democrat Bart Stupak on the House floor.
It is now getting worse. Congressman Stupak says he has received
death threats after voting for health care reform, that callers have left
him messages saying, "You're dead. We know where you live. We'll get
you." That's the worst of it.
Today, the Michigan Democrat released some of the other messages he's
been getting at home that have kept his wife from answering the phone.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIPS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE CALLER: Congressman Stupak, you baby killing
(EXPLETIVE DELETED). I hope you bleed out your (EXPLETIVE DELETED), got
cancer and die, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: There are millions of people across the
country who wish you ill. And all of those thoughts projected on you will
materialize into something that's not very good for you.
(END AUDIO CLIPS)
O'DONNELL: Congressman Stupak, a former police officer, told
"Politico" he's not fazed by any of the threats.
Meanwhile, last Thursday, Congresswoman Louise Slaughter, chairman of
the rules committee, received a death threat targeted at her children at
her campaign office in Niagara Falls, New York.
A brick was also hurled through the window of a Democratic Party
headquarters in Rochester, New York.
And in Virginia, the older brother of Congressman Tom Perriello had
his home address published by two Danville tea party activists who thought
it was the congressman's address. Tuesday night, his brother and his
family smelled gas and discovered that the gas line had been cut. In their
mail, they found a threatening letter addressed to the congressman.
Today, House Minority Leader John Boehner both explained and denounced
the threats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOEHNER: There are a lot of angry Americans and they're angry over
this health care bill. They're angry about the fact that the Democrats
here in Washington aren't listening to them.
But I've got to tell you that violence and threats are unacceptable.
It is not the American way. Yes, I know there's anger. But let's take
that anger and go out and register people to vote. Go volunteer on a
political campaign and let's do it the right way.
MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: OK.
BOEHNER: I'm concerned about the amount of violence and anger that's
out there, but it's unacceptable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: Any possible link between people's anger and the lies and
rhetoric from the minority leader himself and others on the right are
seemingly lost on Mr. Boehner.
The Democratic leadership says there have been threats to about 10
Democratic lawmakers. The FBI announced it is investigating. What the
bureau might be able to do about the threat to democracy is less clear.
The House majority leader sees the threat this way -
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOYER: Our democracy is about participation. Our democracy is about
differing and debate, and animated debate, and passionate debate. But it
is not about violence. Democracy cannot survive unless we have a civil
society in which debate is open and free and unfettered by threats.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: The latest development tonight, Congressman Stupak and Jim
Clyburn both received faxes each, had a drawing of a noose on it.
Time now to call in Congressman Barney Frank, Democrat of
Massachusetts and chairman of the House Financial Services Committee.
Congressman, after this weekend of protests which you've described as
a mass hysteria and compared it to the Salem witch trials - in your 29
years in the House, is this about as rough as it gets?
REP. BARNEY FRANK (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Unfortunately, yes. And let me
throw in one other thing, and the Republican leadership finally decided to
say no, although they still are ambivalent about it, saying, well, yes,
this angry and people aren't listening to you.
Well, obviously, we are listening. But they mean is what you said
early on. They lost the vote. And in a democracy, when you lose a vote,
that's not a justification for violent threatening behavior.
But on Sunday morning, a couple people violated the most basic rule of
a parliamentary democracy. They began disrupting the proceedings of the
House of Representatives from the gallery. Two of the officials went to
throw them out. These aren't cops, these are civilian ushers.
It's a very dangerous place with a steep pitch and sort of wrestling
people who are trying to resist this. It's not a fun thing.
To my disgust, dozens of Republicans of the House stood up and egged
on the protesters. Here were people violently resisting law enforcement
people trying to preserve fundamental order in a parliamentary assembly and
they were being cheered on by the Republicans.
I've never seen this. I've never the kind vituperation that was being
expressed by people outside and obviously, people - look, under the First
Amendment, you have the right to be a jerk. In fact, the First Amendment
protects jerks, because if you're a nice person, nobody will try to shut
you up. So, no one is talking about their legal right to behave in such a
terrible fashion, although the threats and spitting obviously go beyond
that. But you had the Republicans all day Sunday cheering them on.
And finally, because the political reaction was so negative, you have
John Boehner denouncing it. Earlier, the reaction was to say these were
isolated incidents. As I said to one friend, yes, you know, what's 40 or
50 isolated incidents in a day?
O'DONNELL: Now, we saw Congressman Bart Stupak kind of shrug off
getting death threats. I saw you shrug off the things that were yelled at
you over the weekend, speaking to Rachel Maddow on this network. You just
shrugged these things off.
How do you do that? I don't think there's any viewers out there
watching this who can imagine getting death threats or getting yelled at
the way you've been yelled, called the names you've been called, and just
shrugging it off and walking into work. How do you guys do that?
FRANK: Well, a couple of things. First of all, I - I have to say,
maybe I'm luckier than some of my colleagues. I don't get death threats so
much. I get after death threats. That is people tell what's going to
happen to me after I die and I'm frankly un-persuaded that they're going to
have a lot to do with that.
But yes, I got to understand them. My partner, Jim Ready, is a guy
who is new to politics through our connection, and he - we had a weekend
plan, but because of the votes, he came down to join me for the weekend and
accompanied me. And, you know, I saw through his reaction he's not used to
having people yelling homophobic threats and other vicious kind of "I hate
you, you should die," and it is very troubling. I guess, we just kind of
get used to it.
And in some ways, frankly, when you're in this business, I hate to say
that, I wish I had done it, but it did occur to me, knowing politics as I
do and knowing the American people as I think I do - at least a very large
percentage of them - I knew this was going to backfire on them. I knew
that the average American was going to be angry at this, especially when it
was the Republicans egging it on.
And let me throw in something I talked about before - John Boehner
goes to the American bankers last Wednesday - and this is part of this
bullying approach - and says to the bankers, "Don't worry, I will protect
you against regulation." Not, "I'll make it better." Not, "I'll try and
improve the package." "I'll try and kill the whole thing. I'll leave you
free to do all the things you've done before," to these bankers and other
financial institutions.
And then he says, referring to the people who work for us on Capitol
Hill - who are very hard working, decent people - "And don't let these
little punk staffers take advantage of you."
Now, what struck me is the Massachusetts legislature recently passed a
bill, unanimously, Republicans and Democrats, to try and control bullying
at junior high school and even in elementary school and high school. And
that's a serious problem, when they single-out people who seem to be
different. Well, it doesn't do much good for us to pass any bullying
legislation and then have young people turn on the television and see
bullying tactics being egged on by the Republican leadership.
O'DONNELL: Congressman Frank, a quick one before you go, I have to
ask you this. I remember vividly - vividly - in the 1990s when Dick
Armey called you a name that you heard yelled at you today. Dick Armey is
now a favorite speaker at tea party events. I don't think that is just a
coincidence. Do you?
FRANK: No, I think that there's anger there - look, I think there
are people there who long for the good old days when black people, frankly,
weren't given full equal rights. Some of them go that far back.
Certainly, there are people that don't think gay men and women should be
able to walk around without being embarrassed and ashamed.
I'm sure the fact that I was walking with Jim, and I'm a member of
Congress, bothered people, and I think it is the attitude that they've
heard from some of right-wing leader that's egged it on.
O'DONNELL: Congressman Barney Frank of Massachusetts, I admire your
courage in getting up and going to work every day at this point.
FRANK: Thank you very much, Lawrence.
O'DONNELL: For more, let's turn to Mark Potok, director of the
intelligence project at the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Mark, Minority Leader Boehner made a statement in which he talked
about the anger and he said it was unacceptable. But it doesn't seem to
occur to him that he might have any role in the fiery rhetoric he's used -
the angry rhetoric he's used in provoking some of these people in the
crowd.
Is Boehner missing something here? Or am I kind of overworking the
connection?
MARK POTOK, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: I think that what he had to
say was a day late and a dollar short. You know, I would like to know
where the so-called responsible leaders of the party were, you know, when
Sarah Palin claimed that the president was setting up death panels to
murder our grandparents. I'd like to know where they were when
Congresswoman Michele Bachmann was suggesting that the president was
setting up political reeducation camps to turn our children into Marxist
robots. You know, I'd like to know where they were when Steve King was
suggesting that the person who flew a plane into an IRS building in Austin
was essentially just identified, or had the IRS been eliminated, this would
never have been a problem.
I mean, I just think we've heard an enormous amount of vitriol,
defamatory conspiracy theories and propaganda from people who are in a
position to lead and to know better. So, it just seems to me these people
very largely have been trying to ride the tiger of this populist rebellion
and in doing that, they've come more and more to look like the tiger.
O'DONNELL: Now, you've tracked this kind of phenomenon in the past.
And I'm wondering where you think we are in this one. I mean, Barney Frank
and I in the 1970s in Boston both bore close witness to a much violent
political outbreak over school bussing. That turned out to be a phase that
the city went through, got behind, got it behind them and the city has
moved on.
What is this? Is this the beginning of something? Or is this a phase
that is going just to peter out after we stop talking about health care
reform?
POTOK: Well, my own sort of comparative experience is living through
the militia movement of the 1990s and covering that very closely. I think
that we are at a very similar place, the same kind of white hot heat, rage
out there.
The difference is that it's much more widespread, that we've seen it
in all kinds of groups. We've seen it spreading through the tea parties,
and we have seen it, frankly, aided and abetted by certain political
figures, particularly in the Republican Party.
So, I think that we're at a very scary moment, and this kind of
protestations from John Boehner and others today really do seem like they
have come a good year late.
O'DONNELL: Mark -
POTOK: We just haven't heard much from these people until now.
O'DONNELL: Mark, we now have an assortment of groups organizing a
planned Second Amendment march, which is a massive gun rally on Washington
next month. They have chosen the date of April 19th for this event, which
is a particularly troubling date in the history of American political
terrorism.
You want to explain that?
POTOK: Sure. I mean, April 19th, of course, in 1993 was the day in
which the Waco siege ended, which led a lot of people into the militias and
into a kind of furious rage against the government. Ultimately, of course,
April 19th, two years later, 1995, was the day on which Timothy McVeigh
murdered 168 people in the Oklahoma City federal building.
So, you know, it's a remarkable thing. Something interesting to say
about that is that some of these people will be going to Virginia armed at
a kind of subsidiary rally.
O'DONNELL: Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center - thank you
very much for your time tonight.
POTOK: Thank you for having me.
O'DONNELL: Coming up: How did FOX News cover the historic bill
signing yesterday? Well, they ignored it. Except Glenn Beck, talking
about needing a hug and then wondered allowed about maybe on picking up a
gun.
And in D.C., the vote-a-rama is underway on the Senate floor. So far,
the Democrats have been successful in blocking all Republican changes to
the reconciliation fix. We'll have the latest from Capitol Hill.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'DONNELL: Coming up: The media's role in whipping up the violent
reaction to the health care debate. FOX News led the lying campaign, and
then once reform became law, went out of its way to ignore it and move on -
leaving angry, misinformed viewers in the dust.
And why was Glenn Beck talking about spanking, hugs and guns?
That's next. This is Countdown.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'DONNELL: A funny thing happened on the day after the house passed a
landmark health care reform bill. Almost instantaneously, people seemed to
start liking it more. Whether that's because the public tends to side with
winners, or because the right-wing noise machine sputtered, or because
every mainstream news organization's treatment of the bill's passage
included all the good things in the bill, we may never know.
But now, what does FOX News and Glenn Beck and the right-wing noise
machine do with their coverage of a health care reform bill that is
actually the law of the land?
It was a banner day for Democrats, not just because of the image of
their president signing the health care reform bill on page one of every
newspaper in the land, the first major polling taken entirely after the
House vote seemed to be moving their way.
Before passage, 45 percent said the bill should pass, 48 percent said
no. But after passage, 50 percent were pleased or enthusiastic about it,
while 42 percent were angry or disappointed. Further, 49 percent said it
was a good thing for the country, while 40 percent said it was a bad thing.
As for FOX News coverage of the signing ceremony, it was almost
comical. This was the bill that FOX News convinced its viewers was the
worst thing that Congress could do to America. And on the day it was
signed into law, Megyn Kelly spent about 23 seconds on it. That was
typically of the day's coverage over at FOX.
And Glenn Beck yesterday barely mentioned the health care bill for the
first 45 minutes of his show. When he finally got around on it, he somehow
compared the bill's passage to a child being spanked by its mother, and
then he made a strange Beckian reference to picking up a gun.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: Haven't we just been spanked? Hasn't most of the country -
doesn't most of the country feel like they've been spanked over the heads
with health care? You bet. I do, you do. A lot of people do.
Some people are celebrating. A lot of people don't. If you loved us,
what would you do? You would hug us. But they're not. They're going for
illegal immigration.
What is it that these evolutionaries want? You pick up a gun? Have
you ever thought of that? These people have, because possibly, maybe the
question should be asked - maybe they're tired of evolution, and maybe
they are waiting for revolution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: Let's bring in the president of Media Matters, Eric Burns.
Good evening, Eric.
Listen, I need help here -
ERIC BURNS, MEDIA MATTERS: Yes, sir.
O'DONNELL: - because I'm not a frequent Beck watcher. I can't quite
tell. What is he asking for there? Which does he want more - to be
spanked or to be hugged? What's going on there?
BURNS: Well, I can tell you, Lawrence, he certainly needs a good
spanking. That's one thing I know for sure.
You know, look, one of Glenn Beck's stated goals is the destruction of
the entire progressive movement. And in that clip, as I understand it, he
was alluding to progressive leaders that he were - he was suggesting may
pick up a gun.
And this is very common language for Glenn Beck. It's a very common
kind of, you know, violent-type rhetoric that he employs to try to, you
know, discredit progressives, Democrats, and anyone that really doesn't
share his political viewpoint - something that we see often on his show.
O'DONNELL: Yes. Can you walk me through the gun piece again?
Because I really mean it. I'm not kidding around.
BURNS: Yes.
O'DONNELL: I do not understand what it is he's trying to say. He's
clearly trying to say something. He says, "You pick up a gun. Have you
ever thought of that? These people have."
BURNS: Yes, and he's talking about - on the chalkboard, he had the
Founding Fathers on one side and some progressive leaders on the one side.
I believe one of them was Andy Stern of SEIU.
And his point was to try to obviously drive a wedge between those two
crowds of folks and say these people have thought about it - meaning, the
progressive leaders and the progressive movement have thought about picking
up a gun. But that, of course, you know, the Founding Fathers - the
implication is that the Founding Fathers never would. Of course, if he
knew his history better, they were the ones that did in the revolution.
But, yes, really, this is - this is just a continuing part of Glenn
Beck's ongoing campaign to destroy the progressive movement, and frankly,
I'm concerned, perhaps even incite a revolution in this country, Lawrence.
It's not far from anything he said in the past.
O'DONNELL: Well, look - I mean, this is a country that has all too
regularly had shots taken at its president, including President Reagan, one
of the gods of FOX News. You know, what is it - what is it that allows
them at that network to be so casual about references to taking up a gun
when discussing opposition to politicians? I mean, this is such an obvious
thing to stay away from.
Roger Ailes, who runs that network worked for Ronald Reagan, saw
Ronald Reagan get shot at, get shot, almost taken out.
What's - what are they missing - what don't they get about what's
wrong with this?
BURNS: Well, Lawrence, they're not a news network. They're a
political operation, and a fearsome one at that, because they're a
multibillion dollar corporation. They have absolutely no accountability to
anybody but advertising dollars. So, folks like Glenn Beck are free to get
up and say whatever kind of incendiary garbage that he wants and he does it
every single night.
I mean, this is extreme and certainly alarming, but it's not out of
character from what we've seen from Glenn Beck over the last year and a
half. And it ought to explain to a lot of folks why there are so many
confused, angry tea partiers out there who really have been lied to and
misled and don't really understand what this health care debate has been
about, because they spend a lot of time watching Glenn Beck.
O'DONNELL: Quickly, Eric, before you go. A prediction, if it's
possible in a crazy place like FOX - but are they going to run away from
or just give up on health care next week and try to find some other
bogeyman? Have they worn themselves out on that subject or they'll keep at
it?
BURNS: No, they're keeping at it. I mean, they spent - I think they
did 10 interviews with Republican attorneys general in the last three days
to try to push this legislative attack on the new health care reform bill.
They're digging all in. And I'll tell you, Sarah Palin posted on Facebook
just today, "Don't retreat, reload."
O'DONNELL: Well, let's just hope they can get those angry protesters
focusing on court process as a challenge, instead of, you know, throwing
bricks at people's offices.
Eric Burns of Media Matters - thank you very much for joining us on
this.
BURNS: Thank you, Lawrence.
O'DONNELL: Coming up: The Republicans' efforts to block the
reconciliation fix. One Democrat calls it the GOP's version of March
Madness. We'll have the latest on the votes and the rhetoric the GOP wants
to sell for the midterm elections.
And later, the Internet sensation that was "Yes, we can" video gets a
face-lift and Minority Leader John Boehner isn't going to like it one bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'DONNELL: It was the bill that would kill America, right after it
killed your grandma. Obama-care was health care reform that would create
death panels deciding who lived, who died. It would mean a government
takeover of health care, Washington bureaucrats over-ruling your doctor
about medical decisions. So why, now that Republicans have had two days to
offer amendments to change the new health care law, have none of them
offered an amendment to kill the death panels? Or the government takeover
of health care?
We will get to Republican efforts to repeal the whole thing presently.
But today the focus is on the reconciliation bill of fixes to the new
health care law. And today, for pretty much the first time, when they know
it's all over, some Republicans actually managed to offer clear, cogent
criticisms on substantive matters of policy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. OLYMPIA SNOWE (R), MAINE: Taken together, Mr. President, this is
a grand total of 210 billion dollars in Medicare taxes, and more taxes. So
we went in the Finance Committee from zero to the Senate passed bill that
became law yesterday to 87 billion, and now the bill pending before the
Senate, we've got a grand total of 210 billion dollars in Medicare taxes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: And Republican Senator Tom Coburn offered an amendment
tailor-made for campaign season, putting Democrats in the position today of
appearing to defend government funding of erectile dysfunction medicine for
sex offenders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TOM COBURN (R), OKLAHOMA: This amendment will prohibit
prescriptions for recreational drugs for rapists and child molesters.
Nobody can disagree with that. It's not in the bill. It's the current
state. But if this bill goes through without this amendment, your tax
dollars are going to be paying for Viagra for child molesters. That's
what's going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: And Republican Senator Pat Roberts kept up the anti-tax
chant by getting into the specifics on the law's new tax on medical
devices.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R), KANSAS: These excise taxes will not be borne by
the medical device industry, if, in fact, that's what the other side wanted
to do that. Instead, the tax will be passed on to patients in the form of
higher prices and higher insurance premiums. My colleagues are going to
speak in greater detail about this tax. But let me just take a moment to
talk about some of the people who will bear the burden and what types of
devices will be taxed.
People with disabilities, diabetics, amputees, people with cancer,
people with Alzheimer's are just some of the folks who will see their tax -
their tax costs go up because of this tax. My amendment prevents this
new tax from raising the already-high cost for these groups by striking the
tax on medical devices.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: Of course, the emergence of some Republican lines of
argument that were at least relevant does not mean the end of silly season.
Republican Senator John McCain remains dedicated to Palin certified talking
points.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: You can put lipstick on a pig, Mr.
President, but this is still a pig. The fact is that there are things in
this legislation that are wrong, and there are things that are left out of
this legislation that are wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: We're joined tonight by David Corn, Washington bureau
chief for "Mother Jones Magazine" and a columnist for PoliticsDaily.Com.
Thanks for your time tonight, David.
David, the point in running some of that tape about the Republicans is
that they do have some valid arguments, we just haven't seen them before.
Democrats, we know, have good solid responses to all of that. And we've
been hearing their solid responses all year. But isn't the news of today
that there are some Republicans who can actually talk about this, and they
might not seem particularly sympathetic or open hearted, but they don't
sound outright ridiculous?
DAVID CORN, "MOTHER JONES": Well, their whole strategy during the
real making of this bill was to take their marbles and go home. And today
they're saying hey, look, look at our marbles. We have some marbles here.
Hey, we have some marbles.
And it's a little late on the playground for this. This is not done
in - you know, in what might come up in a legal dispute under the
terminology good faith. They had the chance to make all these arguments
before, and Tom Coburn, I'm sure, if he had gotten aboard and talked about
this Viagra provision, which I guarantee you will be taken care of between
now and November - don't worry about those rapists getting Viagra - but
he could have done this while they were putting the bill together, and I'm
sure the Democrats would have accepted that.
This is sort of a late, last-minute way of trying to stick it to the
Democrats, because what they're really trying to do is cause the senators
to amend the bill. If they change one comma on this bill, this
reconciliation bill, it has to go back to the House for another vote, and
House Democrats don't want to do this. If Tom Coburn is quite sincere, he
can offer a stand alone bill tomorrow for Viagra. And I bet you, by the
end of the day, he'll have about 98 and 99 co-sponsors.
So it's really gamesmanship. They're doing whatever they can to make
this look - make this difficult for the Democrats, at the end of the day.
And they're just not acting like adults.
O'DONNELL: But they are picking some politically radioactive things,
like this Viagra thing, which is a very, very tough vote for Democrats to
have to cast. And I've got to say, I have never seen Senate Democratic
discipline like this. They have been holding together so far with that
solid majority on every single amendment, no matter how tough that
amendment is that comes up on them. I mean, is this what -
CORN: It's not just Senate discipline. It's Democratic party
discipline.
O'DONNELL: Yes.
CORN: The senators made a promise to the House Democrats. You accept
our bill, you vote for our bill, which happened on Sunday night, and we
will vote for the reconciliation bill that you passed on Sunday night, as
well. And I think any of these things that are difficult - any of the
things that are difficult will be taken care of. And I - I'll bet you on
a 90 percent chance here that come election night, if you and I are on TV,
we won't be talking much about Viagra.
O'DONNELL: This is my first -
CORN: Maybe off camera, but not on camera.
O'DONNELL: This is my first TV discussion of Viagra, and I hope my
last. Chuck Grassley discovered - and others discovered that there might
be a drafting flaw in the legislation where it's intended for members of
Congress and the staff to be subjects to this law and get their insurance
the way everyone else in this law does. But they notice that it'd might
not apply to committee staff. They see it may or might not apply to
executive branch, the president. And the president, the White House
actually responded to Grassley on this today, in effect, by saying, we will
voluntarily here at the White House submit ourselves to the same process
that everyone out there in the country will be going through as a result of
this bill.
So there's already today been a little give and a little response to
what's going on here. You're suggesting -
CORN: The funny thing about that - I was doing some reporting and
talking to some people in the Senate. And it turns out that provision of
the bill was written by Tom Coburn.
O'DONNELL: Right.
CORN: The Republican senator who's introduced the Viagra amendment
and others to slow things down. So it was really his mistake at the get-
go. And the White House, they are acting like adults and are saying, we
will stipulate that we will accept this voluntarily.
O'DONNELL: So you think the Senate is going to be able to get some
bills out there that clean up these tough votes later, after all this is
gone?
CORN: It looks right now that we'll get a vote on reconciliation
either tonight or tomorrow at some point. And all these difficulties that
the Republicans are trying to throw at them will, indeed, be cleaned up in
the weeks and months ahead.
O'DONNELL: David Corn of "Mother Jones," thanks for your time
tonight.
CORN: Thanks, Lawrence.
O'DONNELL: Coming up, the Republicans' circular logic of repeal and
replace. The GOP plans to campaign on repealing the new health care reform
law that one of their members is now trying to take credit for writing.
And change has come to that Barack Obama "Yes, We Can" video. John
Boehner meets Scarlet Johansson and Will.I.Am.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'DONNELL: Since the health care bill was signed into law,
Republicans have shifted from shouting "kill the bill" to chanting "repeal
it," to now promising that for sure in November their slogan will be
"repeal and replace it." Meaning, yeah, they will campaign to reform
health care.
Here was the Republican Senate Leader Mitch McConnell yesterday vowing
that Republican opposition to health care reform will not end when the
reconciliation bill is signed into law. Notice that when he identifies
parts of the law he does not like, he does not mention death panels, the
government takeover of health care, or even the end of freedom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MINORITY LEADER: I can tell you with regard
to the - to the campaign that will continue with the American people, I
think the slogan will be "repeal and replace." Repeal and replace.
No one that I know in the Republican conference in the Senate believes
that no action is appropriate. We all think there are things that should
be done. There are a few things in this bill, that I'm sure the president
will talk about a lot, that are things upon which there would be broad
agreement. What we intend to talk about are things in which there are not
broad agreement, the massive Medicare cuts, the massive tax increases, made
even more dramatic in this bill that they want to try to pass here in the
Senate this week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: It is a fascinating strategy. Republicans are now
campaigning to increase Medicare spending by half a trillion dollars.
Now, if that's not weird enough, Republican Senator Jim Demint is
pushing a bill that would just repeal the bill, all of it. John Cornyn,
the GOP's Senate campaign chief, who told ABC on March 8th his party would
campaign to repeal it, now tells "Huffington Post," there is non-
controversial stuff, we are not interested in repealing.
Republican Senator Chuck Grassley says, overall, he opposes the new
law, but put out a press release today taking credit for part of it, a part
which actually gives big government more power over tax exempt hospitals.
Let's bring in MSNBC political analyst Richard Wolffe, author of
"Renegade, the Making of the President" Good evening, Richard.
RICHARD WOLFFE, AUTHOR, "RENEGADE": Good evening, Lawrence.
O'DONNELL: A couple weeks ago, the slogan was going to be, repeal it.
Now the slogan is repeal and replace. What happened?
WOLFFE: Repeal, replace, recycle. What happened here is that this
turned out to be even more of a Hail Mary for Republicans than it was for
Democrats. And the problem with the Hail Mary is that you look stupid if
it goes wrong. In this case, the blocking didn't work.
But the plan B, what happens after the Hail Mary, is just not credible
either. They were playing petty politics. There was all this stuff in the
bill they love, but they just had to stop the whole thing. Or they didn't
really - they were just not being honest about the whole thing in the
first the place.
So the credibility question has to give way now to what is their
situation? Really, repeal is the most honest position they could take.
But they know - you just have to read this morning's "USA Today" to
realize that public opinion is much more fluid, was much less settled than
Republicans suggested before. They're having to live with the reality not
just of the bill, but of public opinion, and it's not in keeping with what
they said.
O'DONNELL: It seems like they may go after the old Reagan starve the
beast strategy. And when you look at the tax arguments they were making on
the Senate floor today, it may be that they want to go in there and just
try to repeal some of these taxes one at a time. Reagan's theory on that
being if I take away the money from the government, the government's not
going to be able to continue these programs. Might that be the clues we're
getting out of the tax arguments they're making today?
WOLFFE: Well, first of all, I think a lot of people are going to say,
why weren't you involved in this process in the front end when you could
have done something about it? But if you take the tax situation, which is
a legitimate philosophical position, the question is why do you want to
increase spending as well? The whole point of starving the beast is to
reduce overall spending.
So going out there and protecting seniors, quote unquote, doesn't
really square, if you're talking about Medicare spending, with either
reducing taxes. But also, let's remember, Republicans pulled out of the
Fiscal Responsibility Commission. So got to be consistent about the
principles they're running on here, rather than just being tactical.
In the end, Republicans have to decide what their strategy is, not
just the day to day, news cycle to news cycle approach, which they've been
taking so far.
O'DONNELL: What about Republican constituencies? Can they watch the
Republicans suddenly become the party of expanding entitlements, meaning
the party that wants to spend 500 billion more on Medicare, and feel that
that's a perfectly reasonable position for them to take?
WOLFFE: You know, if you spend any time listening to the base,
listening to conservative talk radio, with all of its dark talk about civil
war and tyranny - that stuff hasn't stopped, by the way. Just because the
members of Congress have stopped talking about it doesn't mean to say the
base, the Tea Party folks, the conservative echo chamber has stopped this.
It hasn't. People are riled up.
So the idea you're going to expand government on one side, or allow
bits of this bill to go through on the other and survive - again, they
don't have credibility with their own people, never mind with the
independent voters, who have turned around on this stuff.
O'DONNELL: It doesn't seem they had a post game strategy ready to go.
They feel - it seems they were a team that expected to win, and now that
they didn't, I'm not hearing anything that sounds like a cohesive strategy
coming out of losing this legislative fight.
WOLFFE: Well, if they do have a strategy, they're doing a great job
of keeping it secret. I think this is an improvised position. They're all
over the place. They've got to get it together in time for November,
because opposition just isn't going to be good enough beyond their own
base. Yes, they'll turn out 20, 30 percent. The other side is just as
riled up now. And independent voters are moving away.
O'DONNELL: MSNBC's Richard Wolffe, many thanks.
WOLFFE: Thank you, Lawrence.
O'DONNELL: Over 20 million people have watched the Youtube version of
that Will.I.Am tribute to Barack Obama. Tonight, "Yes, We Can" gets a
remix featuring House Minority Leader John Boehner. "Hell no, you can't"
is next. This is Countdown.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'DONNELL: There was a time when Republicans were offended by the
Party of No label. But at some point during the year-long health care
debate, they began to embrace their obstructionism. This past Sunday
night, during his final plea to scrap health care reform, Republican Leader
John Boehner gave the Party of No what it wanted to hear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), MINORITY LEADER: Look at how this bill was
written.
Can you say it was done openly?
With transparency and accountability?
Without back room deals and struck behind closed doors, hidden from
the people? Hell, no, you can't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: Democrats say "yes, we can"; Republicans say "hell no, you
can't." The Internet mash-up was inevitable.
(SINGING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: Oh, the kids, the kids with the computers. They do
amazing things. That will have to do it for this Wednesday edition of
Countdown. I'm Lawrence O'Donnell, in for Keith Olbermann. Our MSNBC
coverage continues now with "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW." Good evening,
Rachel.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED. END