'Countdown with Keith Olbermann' for August 26

Guests: Dan Klaidman, Gregory Rodriguez, Al Franken, Timothy Shipman

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEITH OLBERMANN, HOST (voice-over): Which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow? John Kerry on the attack, accuses the president of flip-flopping, learns of another startling new version of the swift boat story, and leads handily in the electoral college poll.

The Marine family nightmare. The son is dead in Najaf. The father is inconsolable, suicidal, and a blaze. One of the Marines who was there is here.

(UNINTELLIGIBLE) revisited. President Kennedy's nephew, acquitted of rape 13 years ago, sued now by a different woman claiming sexual assault.

And we hoped to put our political problems behind us. But protests at the Republican Convention are indeed getting ugly, and this may not be the end of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER FINCH, ACTOR: Go to the window, open it, and stick your head out and yell I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: How Al Franken hopes to repeat Howard Beale's success next week. He will join us. Al, not Howard Beale. All that and more now on COUNTDOWN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Good evening. This is Thursday, August 26, 68 days until the 2004 presidential election. But tonight, the key numbers may be 2 to 1 and 286. The latter is the number of votes in the electoral college currently within John Kerry's grasp, according to the polling done in the so-called purple states. Two to one? That now the number of witnesses at the swift boat event who now support John Kerry's version of it, not Larry Thurlow's. And the new one is an anti-Kerry retired Naval chief petty officer.

Our fifth story on THE COUNTDOWN tonight, it was a good day to be John Kerry. Thurlow, the boat captain who has insisted there was no enemy fire the day in March 1969 he and Kerry got Bronze Stars along the Mekong Delta has been outvoted. The records of the radar operator who received the third Bronze Star that day not only indicate that there was significant enemy fire, but that at one point during the chaos Thurlow fell into the river and had to be rescued by that radar man. Retired Chief Petty Officer Robert Lambert has tonight confirmed a "Newsweek" report that the records of his citation indicate there was enemy fire.

Quote: "I thought we were under fire. I believed we were under fire," Lambert told the Associated Press. "Thurlow was far too distracted with rescue efforts to even realize he was under fire. He was concentrating on trying to save lives."

As to John Kerry, Lambert, who served 22 years in the Navy, added, quote, "I don't like the man himself, but I think what happened happened, and he was there. Kerry was out in front of us, on down the river," Lambert added, "he had to come back up the river to get to us."

Thurlow not only said that Kerry's assertion of enemy fire was false, he also suggested the senator himself wrote after-action reports that led to all of their medals. The document uncovered today not only supports the senator's version of events, but also includes details Kerry could never have witnessed, negating the charge that he wrote those reports. One detail in particular, that Lambert plucked Thurlow out of the water, where he had been thrown during the confusion.

Meantime, back in this century, the campaign itself, as opposed to the unending swift boat debate, heated up today and focused. In Anoka, Minnesota, Kerry threw a hay maker at the president, turning a question about flip-flopping into an answer about the incumbent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's standard Republican play book. It is the same thing they said about Al Gore, it's the same thing they said about John McCain down in South Carolina. They just say it. And if you spend enough money and say it enough, people like you are going to ask the question.


Now, let me ask you something. Is opposing the Homeland Security Department and then suddenly embracing it when the newspapers write something, is that flip-flopping? Is opposing 9/11 and then suddenly turning around and supporting it? Is telling us Condoleezza Rice is not going to testify - then she does testify, is that a flip-flop? I mean, you know, is telling you you're going to fund No Child Left Behind, and then stripping it for $27 billion, is that a flip-flop? I mean, you tell me, ladies and gentlemen. Let's get real here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: Whether or not that hay maker landed or missed remains to be seen. Another Kerry jab seems to have missed completely today. His campaign challenged President Bush to debate once a week. The Bush campaign's Steve Schmidt (ph) immediately replied, "John Kerry should take the time to finish the debates with himself." Adding, "there will be time for debates after the convention."

Kerry told that same audience in Minnesota that three debates were insufficient. He may have coined a new catch phrase, "America deserves a serious discussion about its future, it does not deserve a campaign of fear and smear."

Yes, but once a week? The Democratic primaries, they didn't debate once a week during them. We're only human beings, sir! We can only handle so much!

If anyone is equipped to handle more than that, it would be our next guest. Dan Klaidman is the Washington bureau chief for "Newsweek" magazine. Thank you for your time tonight.


DAN KLAIDMAN, NEWSWEEK: Good to be here, Keith.

OLBERMANN: Let's start with John Barry's report in your magazine about Chief Petty Officer Lambert, and now confirmed by him with quotes on the AP, are they - should they be dancing at Kerry headquarters? Does this not boil down to this man, Lambert, saying, I don't like John Kerry but his version of events is correct and Larry Thurlow's isn't, because Larry Thurlow fell in the water and probably couldn't tell what was going on?

KLAIDMAN: Well, it's another in a series of pieces of evidence that tends to undermine the story put out by the Swift Boat for Truth Veterans.

But it's an important one, for a couple of reasons. One, this is a guy who is not a supporter of Kerry - he, in fact, as you alluded to before, he says he doesn't like Kerry. So that tends to adds to his credibility. And also, he adds important information that undermines the story that Thurlow had been telling, that all of these citations were based on eyewitness accounts from John Kerry.

Kerry was 75 yards across the river, dealing with his own problems. He likely could not have seen what was going on. And so this I think is pretty powerful evidence that in the fog of war, people's recollections, some people's recollections might have been wrong, and Senator Kerry's, it looks like, were probably right.

OLBERMANN: And also it explains Thurlow's view without condemning Thurlow, which is perhaps the first time that anything has come up in this in which somebody has not been condemned.


Now, I would not expect there would be a knockout punch in the swift boat saga, but is there a knock-down punch? Is this a knock down?

KLAIDMAN: Look, I mean, so far, just about everybody who was on the boat or right there near Senator Kerry supports his story. Every piece of documentary evidence has supported his story. There are a lot of people who were fairly close but not close enough to necessarily see exactly what went on, who tended to undermine the story or say that it didn't happen, that they were not under fire, but, you know, they have not in a few days been able to produce any more evidence to support their side of the story, not a single piece of documentary evidence to support it, and unless that new information comes out, I think people have began to move on.

It may have done damage. The polls indicate that it probably has done some damage, but at this point I think it's probably not going to do any more.

OLBERMANN: On the subject of the debate idea, confirm for me two assumptions I have about the debate proposal there. First of all, that there's not a chance the president would go along with it, and secondly, no challenger has ever gotten serious mileage out of the complaint "he won't debate me?"

KLAIDMAN: Look, this is part of the quadrennial dance that presidential contenders go through. Has to do with the expectations game.

Look, I'm sure that John Kerry would like to debate President Bush as many times as possible. He wants as many direct shots at the president as he can get, and he wants to be up there on the stage with the president as much as possible, but it's just not going to happen. It's not in the interests of this president. It's hasn't happened, really, since the Lincoln-Douglas debates. And so it's not - it's not a real issue at this point.

OLBERMANN: Yeah, and Lincoln-Douglas wasn't even for president, it was for senator.

KLAIDMAN: That's right. That's right.

OLBERMANN: That's how they got away with it. Quickly, lastly, on this flip-flop reference in Minnesota, redirecting the phrase at the president. Was there a reason that that hasn't been done previously? It seems, hearing it, that that's the obvious answer for John Kerry. Was the campaign holding back and debating whether or not that was an acceptable tactic?

KLAIDMAN: They've always debated about whether or not they want to go on the attack. What they don't want to do is they don't want to step on their message. John Kerry, there is no question he's a strong closer, he's tough when his back is up against the wall, and he will fight back when he needs to.

But he can't win this thing if all he does is cut down President Bush. He's got to raise himself up. And you don't do that by going on the attack. That's been the dilemma that they've had all along.

At this point, after all of the attacks on his war record, they felt they had to do it, and to they're doing it.


OLBERMANN: Yeah, they did it today. Dan Klaidman, Washington bureau chief of "Newsweek," many thanks.

KLAIDMAN: Thank you.

OLBERMANN: Yesterday, the national counsel for the president's reelection campaign, Benjamin Ginsberg, resigned after confirming that he had also provided legal advice to that swift boat group. Ginsberg clearly was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. To continue as a living link between the organizations that are not supposed to coordinate between each other, or to resign and invite assumption of smoke behind fire. Let the assuming begin.

Democratic Representative John Dingell of Michigan has written Attorney General John Ashcroft. He wants a Justice Department investigation into any ties between Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and the campaign, which, suggested Dingell, anyway, quote, "illegal coordination." And today, Kerry campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill sending a letter to Ken Mehlman, the campaign manager for President Bush asking him to clarify what she characterized as "the widening web of connections."

The president continues to deny any coordination between his campaign and the commercials, condemning what both he and the White House spokesman Scott McClellan called, quote, "all such ads." Mr. Bush going so far as to phone the most outspoken critic of the spot, Senator John McCain. En route to a campaign stop in New Mexico, the president pledged that he would work with the Arizona senator to pursue legal action against the Federal Election Commission to stop all 527 group ads. He would not specifically condemn the swift boat commercials. Spokesman McClellan telling the media after the phone call that legislative action would be a second option.

Nobody, though, put a timeframe on any of this.

Senator McCain did more than listen. The Vietnam vet talked to reporters, told them he's fed up with refighting the ever-controversial conflict. Asked if he'd like to see the president specifically condemn the swift boat ads, McCain replied "probably, because of the sensitivity of the war issue to me."

McCain's opposition extended equally, though, to both candidates. Today, the Kerry campaign acceded to McCain's request and pulled an ad using the McCain 2000 primary campaign as a tool to rebuke those swift boat ads. "I'm sick and tired of opening the wounds of the Vietnam War which I spent the last 30 years trying to heal," McCain told the Gannett papers, "it's offensive to me, and it's angering to me that we're doing this. It is time to move on." End quote.

And also still in full gale, a controversy between the Bush ad men and, improbably enough, the United States Olympic Committee. The latter group today formally asked Mr. Bush to withdraw a TV spot that mentions the Olympics, talks about how the president enabled Afghanistan and Iraq to send teams to the current games in Athens. Some Iraqi athletes have objected, loudly, strenuously, on political and personal grounds. The USOC is interested only in the money. It says it has exclusive rights to the term Olympics in all advertising. The Bush campaign said it will ignore the request. It will keep running the ads through the close of the Olympics Sunday, even though a 1999 act of Congress gives the Olympic Committee all rights to those terms, and requires that the Olympics be, quote, "non-political" and "not promote the candidacy of an individual seeking public office."

Coming up, the latest twist on the polls, and the chance that Florida's vote will be counted correctly, but not matter at all. First, campaign light, the polls suggesting both of the candidates are playing catch-up.

As we told you earlier in the campaign, to try to balance the products of Teresa Heinz Kerry and the empire, a company has introduced a rival tomato colloid, what some wags have called a neocondiment. Test marketing is under way in Pinedale, California. People reported to be buying cases of W. Ketchup. The manufacturers claim the W is for Washington. But please note, the Bush campaign has not disavowed commercials for the product.

Reporter Alex Delgado took a taste test among three voters.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I like this one better.

ALEX DELGADO, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Our taste tester preferred Heinz.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not so - it's not so sweet.

DELGADO: But seeing that Ryan is a righty...

(on camera): Which one would you buy, seeing that you're a Republican?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, the W.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: He doesn't like it, but he's going to buy it. And if that isn't indication enough of the decline - of the fall of the democracy, there is this: A dog snack company is now getting into the election - by the way, that's the company that makes snacks for dogs, not a snack manufacturer operated by dogs - the Van Dough (ph) Company says dogs can express an electoral preference by eating either Bush bites or Kerry waffles. Currently, Bush bites are outselling Kerry waffles two to one. Of course, dogs understand little enough human as it is, without asking them to decide if they're pro or anti-John Kerry based on whether or not they prefer Kerry waffles.

And yes, there was a Nader biscuit too, but all it did was obstruct Fido's intestines.

COUNTDOWN opening up with politics, from the latest evidence in swift boat to John Kerry's fighting words on flip-flop. Up next, the number four story, how this is playing out in the polls. New numbers today showing the race neck and neck.

And later, the eve of the Republican Convention, the perspectives and the novel protest plans of Al Franken. He will join us tonight here on COUNTDOWN.


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OLBERMANN: COUNTDOWN's No. 4 story up next. Decision 2004 through the eyes of the pollsters. America's preference for president still within margin of error in the polls, but it might not be so close when it comes to the electoral college. You'll remember that from the last election.

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OLBERMANN: Polling data 10 weeks out from an election can be as deceptive and fatal as quicksand. But there is a new bog in sight tonight, and it fascinates for at least one reason. It has an electoral college vote count that, if accurate, means John Kerry would be the next president of the United States no matter what happened in Florida or Missouri.

The number four story on the COUNTDOWN tonight - Bush versus Kerry by the numbers, and the numbers, to say nothing of the interpretations of them, are numerous.

First, the basics. Tonight's new NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll -

Bush 44, Kerry 42. Margin of error, 35. And if that's not close enough for you, look at leaning. Even leaning is tied. That poll closed yesterday.

An "L.A. Times" poll closed Tuesday. It has Mr. Bush with an even bigger margin a whole 3 points, and when factoring in Ralph Nader, it still has Mr. Bush by 3 whole points. The newspaper did some polling on interior numbers, like the impact of the swift boat ads. Forty-eight percent of respondents said they had seen the first commercial; 20 percent more had heard about it. Even though it was only released a week ago tomorrow, the second commercial has had similar impact already. Forty-four percent had seen it; 17 percent had heard about it.

And now about the good, old electoral college. Working on behalf of "The Wall Street Journal," Zogby International has created a unique poll predicated on the notion that 34 of the states will go exactly as they did in 2000. That the other 16 are the battlegrounds, so do your polling there. And the new Zogby count has Kerry over the minimum 72 electoral votes, ahead of George Bush.

OK, we are here. If you do not recognize this map, please ask the attendant for help. Yellow states are too close to call. Red states to Mr. Bush. There are only two of them among the disputed sates, Ohio and West Virginia, adjoining there towards the right. Twelve of the 16 other battleground states, some by awfully thin margins would, if voting were held tonight, go to Kerry, including Iowa, Minnesota, Pennsylvania and New Mexico.

Giving you this vibrant picture of the entire country. As you see, there is a lot of tomato sauce towards the middle, enough blue that even if the yellow turned red, blue still wins.

To put a number on it, Zogby says just the blue and red states right now would make it Kerry 286, Bush 214 in the electoral college, so much of a margin that even if both remaining yellow states, Missouri and Florida, went to Mr. Bush, it wouldn't matter. Still, Kerry by 34 votes; 16 more than needed for electoral certification. Tim Russert would not even have time to get out his grease board.


Now, that poll comes, of course, with a hatful of caveats. And to analyze them and the poll itself, I am joined by Gregory Rodriguez, contributing editor to "The Los Angeles Times," and a senior fellow at the New America Foundation. Once again, sir, thank you for your time.

GREGORY RODRIGUEZ, L.A. TIMES: Thanks for having me.

OLBERMANN: Democrats look at those numbers and say, Kerry remains comfortably ahead, he's been ahead that way, about that way since July. It's his to lose. Republicans say, hold on there, in five of the battleground states, Kerry is ahead by less than 3 points, and if he lost all five of those states, Bush would win the election by 10 points. It's spinnable. Is there any truth in a poll like this at this time?

RODRIGUEZ: You know what? There's a tendency for me to say, you know what, we're really counting the angels on the heads of pins right now. We're still in the margin of error for the popular vote.

But really, the vote - the poll that really matters here seems to be the Zogby poll. We seem to have not learned the lesson from 2000 that it's the electoral college votes that matter more than the popular vote. So it seems to me the side that should be worried right now is the Bush campaign.

OLBERMANN: Yeah, it's like darts. It's placement and location.

The Zogby poll on August 3, back in the pre-swift boat era, right after the Democratic Convention, had it 291-215 Kerry. This one is 286-214 Kerry, it's virtually unchanged. Since that polling hinges on the states where the swift boat ads actually played on TV, as opposed to merely on cable, does this suggest that those ads in fact turned out to be an enormous amount of smoke but no fire?

RODRIGUEZ: Well, no. I mean, I think we know now that they're very targeted. That the actual - that people who are convinced on either side are still very convinced, and the undecided are still undecided. What it seems to have moved is the veteran vote, and those people, that support has really declined significantly for Kerry.

But what we haven't seen now, and it depends on how the Ginsberg story, the resigning of the Republican lawyer, how it's played out - but will there be a backlash now against the Bush campaign for playing a little dirty?

OLBERMANN: Let me run, lastly, some of the interior numbers out of the new NBC -"Wall Street Journal" poll and get your overall impression of these, which are you know, some of them are bean scratchers. Mr. Bush is minus 8 on foreign policy, but plus he's 11 on the war on terror. This is where we frame the graphics, I think. Not only that, but his terror number, and that's a sick phrase to begin with, is up 5 points since June.

Then there is the question, where is the nation headed? We're a little bit behind. I'll wait for you to catch up.

RODRIGUEZ: You know, I think there's a way to explain this. Really, the terror question is a visceral question. Is, I mean, are you supporting the president in the fight against terror? Is the president doing his best in the fight against terror? And most people are going to give him the benefit of the doubt and defend the president and support the president.


However, the question regarding policy, foreign policy is really, does the president have a plan? And more people have - fewer people have confidence in the president that he has a long-term plan to defend the country, whereas most people seem to believe that the president is doing the best he can to defend the country now. So I think that's the difference between - it's the visceral answer and a cerebral answer.

OLBERMANN: The other one of the early numbers here was about the president deserving reelection. And 50 percent of the country said no, and yet he is leading John Kerry in the poll like 2 points. Is somebody saying, are the American people saying, we want another candidate at this point? What - how these two really strange statistics justify against each other?

RODRIGUEZ: You know what? That seems to make sense, though. They may want another candidate. What it means, though, is that there is room for Kerry to grow, that there is actually a bigger group of people who are dissatisfied with the president, the job he's doing and the direction of the country, than there are Kerry's supporters. That means Kerry can still dig into that group of discontented Americans and perhaps widen his base of support.

OLBERMANN: Gregory Rodriguez of "The Los Angeles Times," as always, sir, a pleasure. Thank you for your time.

RODRIGUEZ: Thank you.

OLBERMANN: This programming note: Next week, we will be live among the Republicans. COUNTDOWN to the convention. All the political news, the non-political news and, most importantly, the political non-news, 5:00 p.m. Eastern, 2:00 p.m. Pacific. Be there, aloha.

No. 4 and five now behind us on COUNTDOWN. We will still have more politics ahead. This? No, no, the slithery underbelly of the world of news signals not more politics, but that "Oddball" is around the corner. Yeah.

And later, we think these are political protesters in New York. Of course, they could just be natives, or leaders of local government.

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OLBERMANN: We're back, and we pause the COUNTDOWN now for some stories about a banned TV ad, a huge hunk of pork, and a two-headed snake. And surprisingly, none of that is the political news.

Let's play "Oddball."

And we begin with the great St. Louis snake heist. Two former workers at the city museum there are under arrest this evening after having been caught with this very rare albino black rat snake. What's so rare about it? First off, it's a black snake, but it's white. Oh, and by the way, if you didn't notice, it has two heads, pointing in opposite directions.


Cops say the two men absconded with the two-headed serpent over the weekend and made a run for the border, perhaps thinking they could sell the rat snake and live like kings in South America, you know, like Butch and Sundance. But there was a rat snake in the gang as well. Somebody turned them in. The snake called Oui (ph) is back, safe and sound, and comfortable in a tiny glass box in St. Louis, and having proved that two heads are not better than one.

To the Kentucky State Fair, the same place that has the statue head of Saddam Hussein on display. No, this would be something else. This is the blue ribbon prize ham of 2004. And it was served up this morning on the charity auction block. A group of bankers won the 14.5 pounds of pork, for $60,000. That's $4,100 a pound. That's more than in the MSNBC commissary.

Mm, phenomenally overpriced ham, ah!

And finally, this will be the last time you'll see this ad for General Motors 2005 Corvette, entitled "A Boy's Dream." It features a child, clearly too young for a driver's license, behind the wheel of a speeding 'vette, speeding and flying.

In a letter to GM's chief, a consumer advocacy group wrote, quote, "this ad is certainly among the most dangerous anti-safety messages to be aired on national television in recent years." Yeah, but the car's cool, man.

President Bush this afternoon refused to denounce this ad either, but he called on Senator Kerry to join him in condemning all flying car ads, even the trailer for the second "Harry Potter" film.

"Oddball" over.

Up next, tonight's No. 3 story. After the Marines his son had been killed in action in Iraq, a father loses control - the latest on his condition. And we'll talk to one of the Marines who had to break the awful news to the family. Also, a day of chaos in Iraq giving way to hope that the three-week-old standoff in Najaf could really be over this time.

Those stories ahead, but first here are COUNTDOWN's top three newsmakers of this day.

No. 3 - by the way, there's a partial theme tonight, episodes of "The Simpsons" coming to life.

No. 3, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, just like his "Simpsons"' counterpart, Rainier Wolfcastle in episode "EABF04," the governor will oversee a rummage sale behind the state Capitol, furniture, cars, scissors, stuff confiscated in drug raids.

No. 2, as you see already, police in Denver, just like those in Springfield in episode "DABF11," overcome by fumes when they tried to burned no-longer-needed evidence, a pile of marijuana.


And, No. 1 - sorry, no "Simpsons" parallel - just Jake Shimabukuro of Hawaii, who has taken Japan by storm, drawing thousands of fans into arenas for his concerts on the ukulele. One Japanese music critic has compared him to Jimi Hendrix, presumably in the hope that he will light the bloody ukulele on fire.

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OLBERMANN: Through operations yesterday, 964 U.S. service personnel had lost their lives since the beginning of military operations in Iraq. And while that number is often updated and reported, there are 964 separate tales of grief which typically get no such attention, until yesterday.

Our No. 3 story tonight, the war on terror and its terrible personal consequences. As we told you first last night, Lance Corporal Alexander Arredondo was killed in action at Najaf. When a contingent of Marines went to family's home to report the awful news, Arredondo's father lost control. He smashed his way into the Marine Corps van and used gasoline and propane to set it ablaze. Marines pulled Arredondo from the burning vehicle.

He is hospitalized tonight with second-degree burns to nearly 50 percent of his body.

Timothy Shipman is a member of the Marines Casualty Assistance Team and was one of the officers at the Arredondo home yesterday.

First, Sergeant Shipman, thanks for your time tonight. We appreciate it.

1ST SGT. TIMOTHY SHIPMAN, U.S. MARINE CORPS: Thank you.

OLBERMANN: I imagine they're all bad, sir, but this looked one like it was all the family's worst fears followed by all of your worst fears. What was that experience like yesterday?

SHIPMAN: It was - it wasn't a scary experience, but you try to prepare yourself for the worst when you go to someone's house.

OLBERMANN: Are they ever - I don't want to say good . That's the wrong word, but are there ever events that leave you more touched and more in touch with humanity than experiencing somebody else's grief? Are they ever bearable I guess is the question?

SHIPMAN: It's never easy. It's never bearable when you have to go and tell someone that their loved one is gone. We just try to make the best out of it and try to treat the family with as much dignity as possible in this time of need.


OLBERMANN: In that situation yesterday, when you went to tell Mr. Arredondo that his son was dead, at one point, he was so grief-stricken he actually ran away from you. Is that right?

SHIPMAN: Yes.

When we arrived at the house, he was doing some type of yard work.

When we approached him, identified ourself and confirmed that he was Mr. Arredondo, we talked to him. And after he heard the news, he ran, moved away from us and actually went to another side of the house and called his mother.

OLBERMANN: And what happened after that? How did this escalate to the idea that he had to - that he was just lashing out in anger at the first thing he could find, which happened to be your vehicle?

SHIPMAN: Well, as it first came out, the grandmother came out and she was screaming. I don't know what she was saying. She was speaking Spanish. Staff Sergeant Magrone (ph), my translator, was trying to talk to her and calm her down and tell her what happened.

In the process, we were still trying to talk to the dad to get him calmed down. He moved toward the garage at one time, grabbed a hammer and proceeded to go toward the vehicle. We talked to him. The grandmother was telling him not to. He stopped, went back to the front area of the house and we began to talk to him again.

As it went on, it began to escalate. He became a little more agitated after making some phone calls and so forth. And all of us ended up back outside in the garage again at one point. At that point, he actually grabbed the propane tank with the gallon of fuel and proceeded to go toward the vehicle again. At that time, the mother was saying no and we were telling him to stop, it's not worth it.

He continued to go to the vehicle. My Marines asked if they wanted me to ask them to give them the authority to grab him and try and apprehend him. And my response was no. And as he tried to go to the vehicle, he continued. His mother was pulling on him, trying to get him off, not to do it. He proceeded to the driver's side of the vehicle, broke the window with the propane tank and began - opened the door, got inside and began breaking the windows.

Upon breaking the windows, he was pouring gas at the same time, went to the back of the vehicle. And he was getting ready to come to the front of the vehicle, he stopped between the driver's seat and the steering wheel in a crouched position standing up and actually lit the vehicle. At that time, he was caught on fire. At that time, when the vehicle was ignited, I don't know if he jumped out of the vehicle or from the small explosion that occurred he was blown out of the vehicle like middle ways of the road.

At that time, he was on fire in the lower extremities, his upper hands and so forth. His mother was screaming. We pulled him over to the side of the road. As we pulled him to the side of the road, he was still fighting. We sort of patted the fire out with our hands over his body. And then we continued to hold him down.

As we held him down, the vehicle was beginning to cause more damage. Gunnery Sergeant Melvin (ph), the Marine that was there, is saying, 1st Sergeant, we need to move him because the vehicle is going to blow. We picked him up and moved him forward about 15 to 20 yards to safety and held him there until authorities came.


OLBERMANN: An extraordinary story. Thank goodness you're all, all right. First Sergeant Timothy Shipman, many thanks you for your time tonight, sir.

SHIPMAN: Thank you.

OLBERMANN: Lance Corporal Arredondo was killed while fighting in the three-week-old standoff in Najaf between a rebel cleric and a coalition of U.S. and Iraq forces.

Tonight, there's word that a peace deal has been brokered that would end the hostilities there. The deal was drawn up with the assistance of Iraq's most revered Shiite leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. Among the terms of the agreement, rebel fighters loyal to the cleric Muqtada al-Sadr are to leave the sacred shrine by tomorrow morning, U.S.-led forces to withdraw to outside Najaf, Al-Sadr goes free, and Najaf is to be declared a weapons-free zone.

Still ahead of here on COUNTDOWN, once again, William Kennedy Smith stands accused a sexual crime, but he is not facing criminal charges. The details in our second story next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: She says he violated her innocence. He calls her allegations outrageous and untrue. It's the tabloid story, the grandmother of them all. And we'll have it again next.

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OLBERMANN: The history of the live televised trial is shorter than it seems. The case of the State of Florida vs. William Kennedy Smith was one of its earliest events. That was in 1991. A low-tech blue dot covered the face of the woman who accused the Smith, nephew to President Kennedy, of having raped her.

Our No. 2 on the COUNTDOWN tonight, as Michael Okwu reports, Smith in the news again.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL OKWU, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The woman accusing William Kennedy Smith has come forward, identifying herself as Audra Soulias. Five years ago, she worked as his personal assistant at the Chicago-based nonprofit group Kennedy Smith, founded to help land mine victims.


In a civil suit filed Wednesday, Soulias says that, in 1999, she and three friends went out to celebrate her birthday at this bar. According to the suit, Kennedy Smith arrived uninvited and kept buying her drinks. He allegedly forced her into his home.

AUDRA SOULIAS, PLAINTIFF: On January 16, 1999, my innocence was involuntary taken from me in a manner by someone who I trusted and respected. It was taken in a violent act that will haunt me to the day I die.

OKWU: According to the suit, Kennedy Smith left her voice messages saying: "It was not your fault. I have a problem. I will get help."

But Soulias also told local reporters that, months after the incident, she and Kennedy Smith began a physical relationship. Other women under Kennedy Smith's supervision have now come forward alleging harassment and unwanted sexual advances. Back in 1991, Kennedy Smith was acquitted of rape at the Kennedy compound in Florida.

Wednesday, he issued a statement calling the allegations "outrageous, untrue, and without merit."

Michael Okwu, NBC News, Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Leaving the supermarket aisle newspaper's front pages now to delve a little deeper into the stories of "Keeping Tabs," settlement has been reached between the publishers of Woody Guthrie's classic song "This Land Is Your Land" and the creators of an Internet parody that swept the nation; 20 million people have downloaded the Bush and Kerry JibJab duet since its debut, but JibJab was sued by Ludlow Music for using the Guthrie song without permission.

The settlement allows JibJab to keep the video on the Net, but it will also have to include a link to the song's original lyrics, donate 20 percent of any profits to the Woody Guthrie Foundation. And they all have to go out and print out the lyrics to Guthrie's "Relativity" song and sing it aloud without reading it first, just for the laughs.

Coming up, Al Franken will join us. As COUNTDOWN wraps up, the political world of protests.

But, first, here are COUNTDOWN's top two photos of this day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)


OLBERMANN: As we mentioned yesterday, among New Yorkers, the phrase, I will be on vacation next week has replaced the more familiar phrase, hello. T-minus four days to the Republican Convention, zero hours for the protests.

Our No. 1 story on the COUNTDOWN, an original mass protest proposed by humorist and commentator Al Franken suggested by one of the most telling movies of all time.

First, however, the extremely low-tech grassroots effort today in big town. I did say grass. This is a group of AIDS activists outside Madison Square Garden demanding the president fulfill his pledge to combat HIV in Third World nations. That's right, politics getting ugly. A total of 11 protesters arrested. Other escaped arrest by hurriedly putting on their clothes, to say nothing of escaping the booing and visible blanching of the crowd.

But that's just a warm-up. Thousands massed someone south of Madison Square Garden, whispered rumors of anarchists, and perhaps most challenging of all, a protest drawing for its methodology from the mad-as-hell scene immortally enacted by Peter Finch in the movie classic "Network."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "NETWORK")

PETER FINCH, ACTOR: You have GOT to get mad. You have GOT to say, I'm a human being (EXPLETIVE DELETED) damn it. My life has value.

So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window, open it and stick your head out and yell, I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: Worked in the movie, but how is it supposed to work during the Republican Convention?

Al Franken of Air America and the still selling book "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them" joining us.

It's great to have you here, first off.

AL FRANKEN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, thanks for having me, Keith.


Love the show.

OLBERMANN: Thank you, sir.

How are you - what is it you are going to do? It's not, "I'm mad as hell." And it doesn't have to be raining and don't you to have a raincoat on, right? What are you trying to do with this?

FRANKEN: OK, it's pretty - this is a nondisruptive way of protesting.

And there's a lot of us in this country who - you saw earlier in your polling data that 50 percent of the people in the country don't want this president to be reelected. And a lot of us are sort of angry at a lot of the things he's done. And when he - and by Thursday, we're going to be really, you know - we're going to be tense.

And so here's the idea. When he comes out - this is when he comes out on your TV, when the president comes out to give his speech, you go to your window, in New York, anyway.

OLBERMANN: All right.

FRANKEN: And you open the window and yell, forget about it! Forget about it!

(LAUGHTER)

FRANKEN: And you do that for about two or three minutes.

OLBERMANN: Yes.

FRANKEN: And then - and stop before he speaks, in respect for his office.


OLBERMANN: Just to drown out the applause, as opposed to what he is saying?

FRANKEN: Well, there will be so many more - we have a Web site, TheGreatAmericanShoutOut.org. And we're expecting about 100 million people to do this.

_OLBERMANN: OK._

FRANKEN: And this - they can be all around the country.

On our show, "The Al Franken Show," on Air America, we've had people call in with regionalism.

OLBERMANN: Customizing it.

(CROSSTALK)

FRANKEN: So, in like Minnesota, people will yell, oh, no, you don't.

(LAUGHTER)

FRANKEN: Oh, no, you don't.

OLBERMANN: For two or three minutes.

FRANKEN: Yes. Oh, no, you don't.


OLBERMANN: What, 750,000 or so in Minnesota, probably, proportionally?

(CROSSTALK)

FRANKEN: Yes. That's about right. That's about right, very, very good quick calculation.

OLBERMANN: Thank you much.

(LAUGHTER)

OLBERMANN: You got any others there for around the country specific?

Is there something in California or...

FRANKEN: No, dude.

_OLBERMANN: OK._

FRANKEN: And that would be Southern California. And Northern California is, no, way, dude.

(LAUGHTER)

FRANKEN: I don't know.


OLBERMANN: No, that's good.

(CROSSTALK)

FRANKEN: Yes.

OLBERMANN: I think you're absolutely right. There is a divide around Sacramento.

FRANKEN: Yes.

OLBERMANN: And, in Sacramento, it's something like that, but with an Austrian accent.

(LAUGHTER)

OLBERMANN: Nein.

FRANKEN: Nein, dude.

(LAUGHTER)

FRANKEN: Yah.

OLBERMANN: So this would be the ultimate expression of the voice of the people, as it were?


FRANKEN: Yes.

And what it does, it doesn't tax or burden in any way our public safety system here in New York. You know, they're not allowing the protesters to go to Central Park. They're putting them on the West Side Highway, which is really bad, because I understand they're not closing down the West Side Highway.

OLBERMANN: That's a problem.

FRANKEN: Yes.

OLBERMANN: Have you thought, though, about the impact on police dogs of all...

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

FRANKEN: Yes, we've thought this through.

OLBERMANN: The K-9 unit, one of the hardworking, nonpartisan parts of the police force in New York.

FRANKEN: We did a study on police dogs. And unless it's very high - we're telling no high-pitched whistles.

(CROSSTALK)

OLBERMANN: I'm comforted.


FRANKEN: That's why - forget about it is fine for dogs. And we want it all - and we're hoping that we'll - the networks will cut to a split screen, because there will be more people shouting outside, obviously, than in Madison Square Garden. It's almost a bigger story.

In Madison Square Garden, they will be going, like, thanks for my tax cut or thanks for rolling back environmental regulations, so my business can pollute. Thank you. Thank you for sending someone else's kid to Iraq.

That's what they will be saying inside. And we'll be going, forget about it.

OLBERMANN: And, nein, dude.

FRANKEN: And nein - well, that actually will be in the Garden.

OLBERMANN: Yes, that's true, too.

FRANKEN: And, no - and, oh, no, you don't.

OLBERMANN: Not - so you can wear that official, sanctioned "I'm an

OK person"

(CROSSTALK)

FRANKEN: That's right.

I believe if you sign on to the Web site, you actually - you can sign up to host a party, to find a party or just do it alone. And you qualify as a nonviolent pro - so you can get your discount at Applebee's. I think that's...


OLBERMANN: Right. You get a discount at Applebee's. You can get into the Museum of Sex for less, too, according - if you are wearing one of those buttons in New York.

FRANKEN: Right. So there's all kinds of advantages to this, in addition to having the catharsis of yelling at the president.

OLBERMANN: And you don't have to - can you...

FRANKEN: Again, out of respect to the office...

OLBERMANN: Don't yell while he's talking, but beforehand.

FRANKEN: No.

And this will be at about 10:05, 10:10.

OLBERMANN: Yes.

FRANKEN: So you won't be waking your neighbors. It would be like if the Yankees or the Mets had won the World Series.

OLBERMANN: Yes, like the Mets are going to win the World Series

(CROSSTALK)

FRANKEN: Well, they did once.


OLBERMANN: But what - we just showed that video of the AIDS protesters naked.

FRANKEN: Right.

OLBERMANN: Could you do this protest naked?

FRANKEN: Yes. That's one of the beauty parts.

(LAUGHTER)

OLBERMANN: But not too close to the window would be probably

(CROSSTALK)

FRANKEN: Lower - if the window - most windows...

OLBERMANN: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

FRANKEN: You know?

And, yes, this is another thing. Anybody can do it. And anybody any


· you can be in the middle of farmland and do it for yourself in Nebraska or in, like, in Mankato, Minnesota. If you are on a farm near Mankato, you can go, oh, no, you don't.

(LAUGHTER)

OLBERMANN: Out at the silo.

FRANKEN: At the silo.

OLBERMANN: At the silo.

FRANKEN: You can do that. So it's actually quite an elegant solution to - and, again, it does not burden our public safety.

OLBERMANN: One hundred - 100 million?

FRANKEN: We're expecting about 100 million.

OLBERMANN: Is that the mean, or could there be a low - is there a range? It's like 2,000 to 260 million?

FRANKEN: Somewhere in there.

OLBERMANN: Got it.

FRANKEN: We actually have an amazing number; 26,000 have already logged on and we're - yes.


OLBERMANN: Well, thanks for coming out and joining us here in the hinterlands here on COUNTDOWN.

FRANKEN: Well, in Secaucus, you can also say, forget about it.

OLBERMANN: Forget about it. And...

FRANKEN: That's a New Jersey thing.

OLBERMANN: Right.

FRANKEN: We've had actually on the show a couple members of "The Sopranos" to explain how to yell forget about it.

OLBERMANN: And the horse you road in on.

FRANKEN: Yes.

OLBERMANN: We're done, Al. Thanks for joining us, though.

FRANKEN: No, we're not done yet.

OLBERMANN: Yes, we are.

I'm Keith Olbermann. Good night and good luck.

FRANKEN: Why are we done?

OLBERMANN: Because it's 9:00. Debbie is next. Come on, Deborah Norville is next. Good night.

FRANKEN: Oh.

OLBERMANN: Bye. Bye.

END

'Countdown with Keith Olbermann' for August 25

Guests: Ruth Peters, Charlie Black, Craig Crawford

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEITH OLBERMANN, HOST: Which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow? Max Cleland, the Vietnam vet in his wheelchair urging the president to stop going after Vietnam vets as the Swift Boat ad controversy expands again, now forcing the resignation of a top lawyer on the committee to re-elect.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've flip-flopped, flop-flipped.

OLBERMANN: John Kerry on "Comedy Central." The reviews are in and so are the quotes that can be taken entirely out of context.

Russian airliner disasters. Still no confirmation that it was terrorism, still no believable odds that it could not have been.

Raising children in 2004. Free doughnuts when they get As in school, a drop of Tabasco Sauce on their tongues when they misbehave. What if your kids are smart and disobedient? Do they get both? All that and more now on COUNTDOWN.


(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Good evening. This is Wednesday, August 25. 69 days until the 2004 presidential election. And it is a former U.S. senator and former head of the nation's veterans' administration who may have changed the dynamic of this still burgeoning controversy over the so-called Swift Boat ads as he tried to hand deliver a letter of protest to the Bush ranch in Texas.

Max Cleland told reporters, quote, "keep in mind that this president has gone after three Vietnam veterans in four years."

Our fifth story in the COUNTDOWN, Mr. Cleland posts a letter and gets an immediate response. A bush attorney finds that in the 527 era you cannot serve two masters and the vice president uses in public apparently for the first time, that phrase, "I have a gay daughter."

The political pornucopeia (ph) overflows. We start at a modernized high noon in Crawford. The Texas sun not quite at its midpoint when ex-Senator Cleland arrived in Crawford, immediately making his way to the Bush ranch, uninvited, certainly not unannounced. Cleland who lost both legs and one arm in Vietnam was there to personally drop off a letter. It is signed by nine Democratic senators, all of them vets. It asks Mr. Bush to denounce the commercials.

Also of note, his sidekick there Jim Rassman, the Vietnam Green Beret, registered Republican who is the man who credits John Kerry with having saved his life in Vietnam that they were stopped at the gates was probably less than disappointing to them. A southern gentleman would probably have to refrain from immediately criticizing his host before the excited White House press corps. But with the president's people refusing admission or acceptance of the letter, there were no such constraints on Cleland.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAX CLELAND, FMR. U.S. SENATOR: If the president of the United States does not stick up for veterans who distinguish themselves in war when they come home, who will he stick up for? So this is a very serious issue with me, with members of the United States Senate with whom I served and those who wore the uniform in this country. We can't let these attacks continue. It's one thing to provide political combat here in America. It's another thing to try to go behind somebody's military record and trash them in a campaign of character assassination.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: It's not as if no one was on hand to greet Mr. Cleland at the gates of the Bush ranch. The welcoming committee led by Texas land commissioner, Jerry Patterson (ph) seen on the left alongside fellow Vietnam veterans, therein matching Cleland note for note. Meant quite literally. They have a letter of their own. In it, they told Senator Kerry, quote, "you can't have it both ways. You can't build your convention and much of your campaign around your service in Vietnam and then try to say that only those veterans who agree with you have a right to speak up. There is no double standard for our right to free speech. We all earned it."

As for the accuracy of what the Swift Boat Veterans have been saying about Senator Kerry, the letter pretty much steered clear of that.

New acts, new actors being added to Swift Boat theater with each passing day. White House correspondent Norah O'Donnell was a witness to today's episode. Political pony express. She joins us now from Crawford. Norah, good evening.


NORAH O'DONNELL, NBC NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good evening to you, Keith.

OLBERMANN: Was this really a showdown? Was it less theater and more two one-man plays? Did these men ever actually interact?

O'DONNELL: Well, it did have all the makings of a classic Texas showdown, but it was a somewhat of a disappointing duel, if you will. It was sort of more monologue than dialogue. Cleland, of course, appeared at the gates of the president's ranch with letter in hand ready to hand it off to the president. He was refused entry, but a Bush supporter appeared and tried to talk to Cleland and Cleland turned his back on him.

So there were never any letters exchanged even though Cleland had a letter for the president and members and veterans supporting President Bush had a letter for Cleland to pass on to Senator Kerry. Cleland then had a press conference later which he called on the president to denounce and condemn these scurrilous attacks. So there was a great deal of political theater here but the point was when we asked Cleland, isn't this a stunt, as the White House said, and he said, yes, it is, but it's a genuine one, and there were clearly some feelings felt on the part of Cleland. He felt he needed to come down here and do this.

OLBERMANN: Norah, who was the man leading the anti-Kerry vets, Jerry Patterson and does he have something to do with the Swift Boat ads or not?

O'DONNELL: Well, Jerry Patterson does not have anything to do with the Swift Boat ads. It's interesting. He is the Texas land commissioner, a Republican who was also a state senator here. A 58-year-old father of 6-month-old twins, also has a son who is on his way to Iraq as U.S. marine pilot, helicopter pilot. He says he was on his way to Dallas this morning when he got a call from the Bush-Cheney campaign saying Cleland was coming into town. They had a letter with some other veterans signing and they needed his help.


So he turned around, came to Crawford and he said he got the letter faxed to him at the Texas ranch and the president actually called Mr. Patterson and spoke with him and thanked him for doing this. Patterson was just here as a supporter of the president and said veterans have the right to speak their mind and didn't really disagree - didn't really disagree with the Swift Boat ads. It was interesting. He was also asked has he seen many of these Swift Boat ads and he said, actually, I haven't because I live here in Texas and they don't air many of them.

Someone asked him if he knew Bob Perry, who is the man who has been funding some of these Swift Boat ads and he said, yes, he happens to be a good friend of his, but he didn't know of any connection in terms of with these particular ads. He was here mostly he says, because the Bush-Cheney campaign called him to duty today. He says he hasn't spoken with the president in four years.

OLBERMANN: Lastly, Norah, a matter of some more substance here. Ben Ginsberg, who by the way for disclosure, was a frequent guest of mine during the Clinton-Lewinsky shows here, has resigned as the chief outside lawyer for the Bush reelection campaign admitting that he had also been doing some lawyering for the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth. In quitting, Ben said that he had violated no law, no spirit of the law. There had been no coordination between the Swift Boat folks and the Bush folks. He had done nothing wrong. They had done nothing wrong. If all that's true, how come he quit?

O'DONNELL: Well, Ginsberg said that he didn't want to be a distraction to the campaign and so he decided he would remove himself. It's interesting. Ginsberg, of course, has been - is an election law expert, has worked with the president for more than five years, central certainly to this campaign, but apparently according to the campaign, he didn't let them know that he was working independently and helping to advise those who put together the Swift Boat ads.

Karl Rove said tonight that Ginsberg had to resign because of a hypocritical double standard. He said that the media and others are focusing on the Swift Boat ads and the fact that Ginsberg works at the Bush-Cheney campaign and also happens to advise them, where there Democrats that do the same thing. He pointed out that there's Bob Bauer who works with the Kerry campaign, is involved in some of these other liberal-leaning independent groups. And so the Bush campaign making the point they didn't want the distraction, but they think that there's a double standard that exists.

OLBERMANN: Well, Mr. Rove can't have it both ways. Can't have the spotlight without it showing something now and again. Norah O'Donnell tonight at the Texas White House, thanks for your time this evening, my friend. Appreciate it.


O'DONNELL: My pleasure.

OLBERMANN: While the battle rages, that one does in capital letters between the two parties, evidence of a new one, much more low key entirely self contained developed today among the Republicans coming from Davenport, Iowa, but with repercussions for next week in New York City.

That's where at its national convention, the G.O.P. will put into its platform a hard line against same-sex unions. Not just no marriages, not just a constitutional amendment prohibiting marriages, no legal same-sex recognition of any kind. This while other parts of the convention will apparently be aimed at softening some of the hard-seeming edges of the party, a seemingly mutually exclusive feat made theoretically by the fact that almost nobody has actually read a party political platform since Thomas E. Dewey lost in 1948.

At that exact moment, Vice President Dick Cheney of all people seemed to wander off the platform. It's long been known that one of his daughters is lesbian. He had apparently never spoken about it publicly until now at a campaign stop in Davenport.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue that our family is very familiar with. We have two daughters and we have enormous pride in both of them. They're both fine young women. They do a superb job of supporting us and we are blessed with both our daughters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: The vice president brought this up because he had been asked in a question-and-answer session about what he thought in his heart about, quote, "homosexual marriages."

Cheney said he believes the relationships are no government's business, the marriage or union issue is best left for the states to decide and that the president supports the constitutional amendment that would take that right from the states.

Joining me now from New York, Charlie Black, veteran Republican strategist and adviser to the Bush-Cheney campaign. Mr. Black, thank you for your time this evening.

CHARLIE BLACK, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: My pleasure.

OLBERMANN: Is there a disconnect between what's going to be in the platform, the Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage and what Vice President Cheney said in Iowa?


BLACK: First of all, with the a platform is a statement of fundamental principles of a party. It's not an effort to get every elected official to agree on every bit of the platform. But rather, it's an effort to get most Republicans can agree with most of what's in it. That said, the vice president also said that it's the president who sets policy and the president does believe that a Constitutional amendment is necessary to protect the sanctity of traditional marriage. So, if the platform comes out for a Constitutional amendment against gay marriage when it's all done, that reflects the president's position.

OLBERMANN: Cynical Democrats may suggest that the vice president took the opportunity yesterday to soften up his own image there, because there would be no political ramifications because he, in fact, as you said, was deferring to the president's judgment in terms of the stated policy.

BLACK: Well, listen, the vice president's not that way. His position on this has been known for a long time. You'll recall that he talked about this issue and took the same position in his debate with Joe Lieberman four years ago. So I think the foes have known that the vice president's personal views about the Constitutional amendment might vary from the president or the platform, but he deferred to the president saying that the president sets policy, and that's the way it is.

OLBERMANN: Lastly on this point, something else that the vice president said yesterday may be more pertinent on a purely political point of view, his assessment of the actually chances of passing such an amendment.

Let me play this tape first.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Where we're at the this point is that he has come out in support of a federal constitutional amendment and I don't think - well, so far it hasn't had the votes to pass.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: In that hesitation there, it sounded like the vice president was switching to so far it hadn't had the votes to pass to something like I don't think it has the votes to pass. Not many people seem to think it has a chance of passing. And I know the you said about the platform being more or less a statement of principles. But is there a particular reason that what seems like a practical nonstarter would be part of the Republican platform in a hotly contested presidential year?

BLACK: Well, we don't think it's a nonstarter. The history is that Constitutional amendments usually take many years to pass. They often have to be voted on in Congress several times. And then they have to go to the states to get ¾ of the states. It might take as much as eight or 10 years, but the president believes it's an important principle and something we should try to get done.

And you have to start somewhere. The first vote in the Senate was split along party lines. There were some Democrats that probably would like to protect the sanctity of marriage, what were order bid Tom Daschle to vote against it. So, we'll have another vote in the next Congress. Maybe we'll make progress and we might get it done someday.

OLBERMANN: Bush/Cheney advisor, Charlie Black, thank you for your forthrightness, sir. And thank's for being with us tonight.


BLACK: Thank you.

OLBERMANN: Appreciate it.

The invisible threat of politics takes us now to New Jersey, where the term gay marriage has had a entirely different meaning since Governor James McGreevey announced his resignation. McGreevey made his first public appearance today since his announcement two weeks ago tomorrow, signing an economic development bill in Atlantic City.

Meanwhile, the Republican Party, which needs him out of office by September 3 or 15 depending on which law you read in order to force a special gubernatorial election this year, launched a new TV ad, today, demanding his immediate resignation. No 527 group here. The spot was unveiled by Republican National Chairman Ed Gillespie. Lastly, an e-mail for friends, written by the McGreevey's deputy press secretary has fallen into the hands of "The New York Post."

Juliet Johnson (ph), title her message, worst summer ever. And went on to explain that she did not know, and did know that McGreevey was gay, because "Jim, when with a small group of us would make extremely heterosexual jokes, and elude to the various characteristics of hot women. But also, "Surrounded himself with, young attractive men. Although, all of them, outwardly, heterosexual.

Lastly from politics, a follow-up to our story last night that the wife of vice-presidential candidate John Edwards had demanded that a woman reporter interview her for a newspaper in Tucson. This was correct by viewer of last night's edition of COUNTDOWN, Elizabeth Edwards herself.

She tells us, she'll talk to anybody at anytime and never asked that

"Arizona Daily Star" send only a woman be sent. Specificly, only the women

· music critic. Those parameters were proposed to the paper, she says, by the staffer who set up the interview. Mrs. Edwards adds, they were necessary. All right, Mrs. Edwards, but how did you think "Oddball" and the newsmakers went last night?

COUNTDOWN, drinking deep from the political bowl of politics there and anticipating the hangover all ready.

Up next, the number four story. When you say I flip-flopped on national TV, even if it's on a comedy show, is that a win?

John Kerry, Jon Stewart. Jon Stewart, John Kerry, next.


And later, a heart wrenching story from Florida. The distraught father. He has just been told his son was killed in action with the Marines, in Iraq. He sets the Marines' van on fire and then tries to get inside the burning vehicle.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Somewhere in 527 group land, last night around 11:00 p.m. Eastern time, some advertising writers started swing, Oh, sweet mystery of life, at last I found you. Just Madeline Khan did in the movie "Young Frankenstein."

Our forth story in the COUNTDOWN: Politicians out of context and quotes out of context.

John Kerry on the "Daily Show." In a moment, the thoughts of Craig Crawford.

First the clip from the interview that you might see in a swiftboat-like ad on a television near you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW": Are you or have you ever flip-flopped?

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I've flip-flopped, flop-flipped.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: Might have wanted to have a better answer prepared for that one, senator.

For all the successful bypassing of traditional news venues and the chance to speak directly to a demographic group sweep if he could just get it to vote, there still was the collision of cultures. Ever since, Jack Paar, invited then candidate, Jack Kennedy on "The Tonight Show" in 1960, and hesitatively asked, if it would be rude to call him by his first name, no matter how smooth the host or the politician, there's always been one overriding fact - politicians are not show biz quality, and entertainer hosts are not journalism quality serious.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: You sit here and - I'm telling you. I shouldn't go into that, but I've been in some - you would be amazed at the number of people who want to introduce themselves to you in the men's room.

JON STEWART, DAILY NEWS HOST: Really?

KERRY: I swear to God. It's the most bizarre part of this campaign.

STEWART: I'm going to make a suggestion, too. Secret Service...

KERRY: They're right in the door.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: As promised, I'm joined now by MSNBC political analyst and the contributor to Congressional Quarterly, Craig Crawford. Craig, good evening.

CRAIG CRAWFORD, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: You remember what happened in the movie "The Candidate" when Robert Redford met the guy in the men's room.

OLBERMANN: Yes, vaguely. But was the senator's appearance on the Daily Show last night, was it awkward, was it useful. what was it?

CRAWFORD: There were points he looked like he could eat sawdust without butter and it would be more tasty. I think he was uncomfortable. This is not something John Kerry's comfortable being and doing. It comes across that way. He just doesn't - he doesn't put on pretense very well.

OLBERMANN: It was the classic film, "A Face In The Crowd" I think, where we saw this whole collision of the moons thing sort of prophesied. 1957 picture, Andy Griffith playing a down home TV host interviewing who is interviewing a stuffed shirt politician. And the stuffed shirt politician is trying to explain steel tariffs to a bunch of guys sitting around on haystacks. It's priceless.


And like I said, everything following it seemed to have stemmed from it. Is it better for a politician to go and just do a Bill Clinton in this situation? Go play the saxophone. Should you remember you are on an entertainment show and entertain first?

CRAWFORD: Like Kerry did on the Jay Leno Show earlier this year. He rode his motorcycle on there and thought he might pull that off, but it turns out he was second billing to the comic insulting dog who made some unfortunate remarks.

And that was not - that was a pretty good effort to try to be entertaining and different, but again, Kerry just doesn't pull the situations off very well, because he isn't an actor, he's not a showman and that's one reason we say he lacks charisma and isn't good on the campaign trail.

Well this is another example of it. This is not a skill he has to go on these shows and really pull it off smoothly.

OLBERMANN: Lastly, the flip-flop quote? As Chris Matthews can tell you, stuff can be pulled off this network and used out of context in an advertisement in a flash. Could a 527 group somewhere, obviously without the guidance and coordination of the Bush campaign, could they pull that, I flip-flopped, I've been flip-flopped clip, and run it endlessly?

CRAWFORD: I think there are propeller heads in the editing room at those independent groups, cutting that tape as we speak. That will be very tempting for them to use that and show it.

OLBERMANN: Will it be legal?

CRAWFORD: Sure, yes. I think that would be legal. I mean, it's - he went on and in that interview to try to defend himself on the flip-flopping and not everything is simple and black and white and he said the president is too stubborn. But of course, that's the stuff that will not make a lot of the clips.

OLBERMANN: And, he also said flip-flop also is a definition of the term compassionate conservative, so he got his licks in, but again, you're not going to see that anywhere.

Craig Crawford of MSNBC and Congressional Quarterly. And we might add, next week of Countdown To The Convention, 5:00 pm Eastern, 2:00 Pacific. We're looking forward to it, Craig.

CRAWFORD: You bet. I'm heading up to New York tomorrow on the train.

OLBERMANN: We'll see you then.


The No. 4 story completed. Now up next, as we look at the daily food fight that is "Oddball," some say tomato, some say tomayto, me, I say, duck.

And if you found your child participating in a scene like that, would you say that a time out can't fix that, nor spanking, nor just grounding? Hot sauce, that will learn them. Spicing up the disciplinary debate.

Coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: We're back. And we pause the COUNTDOWN for a respite from the agitating political news for some fun stories that will not make your blood boil unless you are from West Virginia. Let's play "Oddball."

We begin with an "Oddball" update. You may remember the big controversy regarding the company Abercrombie and Fitch, and its T-shirts reading It's All Relative in West Virginia. The state's governor Bob Wise was offended, the people of West Virginia were offended, the company was not offended. It sold countless extra T-shirts. Which might explain its latest creation: West Virginia: No Lifeguard In The Gene Pool.

This time Governor Bob is really mad, but his letter to the company isn't likely to accomplish much. He may want to take a cue from the governor to his neighbor to the west who seems to just be ignoring the A and F shirt that reads Kentucky: Electricity In Almost Every Town.

And despite significant reforms, things are still not going well at Abu Ghraib Prison. No, no, we're in Bunol, where those whacky Spaniards, recovered from the bull run, are now spilling red of a different kind. Police say that 36,000 people participated in the hour-long tomato fight.

An annual event in Bunol since the late '40's. This in a city that is only home to 10,000 people. Total amount of tomatoes rendered down in ketchup, 140 tons.

You poor saps, you are work for Teresa Heinz Kerry and you don't even know it.

Finally, the lights (ph) and ingenuity used by those trying to enter the United States never ceases to amaze. You will recall the Cuban immigrants who drove to Miami in converted 1951 Chevy flatbed. But why drive when DHL moves the world?

This crate, which arrived at Miami International Airport Tuesday night on a DHL cargo plane contained contents: 1 Cuban woman, undamaged, self-shipped, fragile.


She mailed herself to America in a box, 36x26x18 inches. Much as the shipping court, Charles McKinley shipped himself from New York to his folks in Dallas almost exactly a year ago. The unidentified Cuban woman is in custody now, but the rules of the immigration derby are generally, that if you make it to U.S. soil, you get to stay, even if you arrive C.O.D.

So much for "Oddball." Up next, our No. 3 story, you're preview the new reports on Abu Ghraib. Investigations that went further than just the seven G.I.'s who have been accused of wrongdoing. And Senator Kerry is renewing calls for high-level resignations.

Also, a double tragedy of war: An young American soldier dies in Iraq. Went the father gets the news, he sets the marine van on fire and tries to take his own life in it.

These stories ahead. First, here are COUNTDOWN's top 3 newsmakers of this day.

No. 3, David Mason, a passenger on a flight from Norway to London. Before boarding, he brought - bought a pornographic magazine to peruse on board. In mid-air, he told authorities, he became offended by some of the pictures. OK. So he ripped them out and lit fire to them under his seat, which is where I believe the rocker Perry Farrell got the name of his band, Porno For Pyros.

No. 2, Deputy Don Hess of Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office in Florida. Drug dealers and prostitutes have been congregating around a giant ancient oak tree in the city of Fort Walton Beach, so Deputy Don has come up with a solution, cut down the tree - the yellow hacksaw and the old oak tree.

And, No. 1 - and I promise not to do that again - Stephen C. Jackson. Police say he robbed a bank in West Lake, Ohio. The dye-pack staining devices went off, so he took the money to a car wash and started stuffing the dye-stained singles into the change machine. When the cops got there, his pants were filled with $457 in quarters and he could barely move. Talk about laundering money.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: The Pentagon postmortem on Abu Ghraib prison, the one produced by former Defense Secretary Schlesinger, specifically does not call for the resignations of the current secretary, Mr. Rumsfeld, nor other senior civilian leadership. That report in fact says such actions would send the wrong message to the enemy.

Our third story on the COUNTDOWN tonight, prevention of terror in New York, investigation of terror in Russia and the consequences of the imprisonment of terror in Iraq. And in light of the Schlesinger report, the salient question might be, what message are we sending to the enemy? The wrong one, John Kerry said today, as he renewed the previous call for Rumsfeld to go, this during a campaign stop in Philadelphia, while in Washington, it turned out, the number of military people and private contractors being investigated over Abu Ghraib is not seven, but 48.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Schlesinger report said specifically that Secretary Rumsfeld set the climate within which these kinds of abuses were able to take place. And again today, as I have previously, I call for the resignation of the secretary of defense for failure to do what he should have done.


(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: The Army today released its investigation into the abuses. It also cites a failure of leadership, but it names names, the Fay-Jones report blaming Colonel Thomas Pappas, 23 military intelligence personnel and four civilian contractors working under this command, complicit in 44 instances, the report says, of prisoner abuse.

The report also documented more abuse at the prison, detainees as young as 15 ordered to urinate on themselves as part of a bizarre game. It also confirmed earlier reports that intelligence personnel had hidden a number of prisoners from Red Cross inspectors. And it maintains that direct abuse was committed by a few, but it also criticizes the head of CENTCOM, General Ricardo Sanchez, for failing to address the problem.

American losses in Iraq are nearing the 1,000 mark. Each death, whether noted nationally or only in the victim's immediate family, is a tragedy of indescribable impact, but an incident in Hollywood, Florida, this afternoon transcended even the usual horrors of war, a death notification proving to be too much for the father of a Marine killed in Najaf.

Our correspondent Mark Potter joins us now live from nearby Miami.

Mark, good evening.

MARK POTTER, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Good evening to you, Keith.

This is a sad story on several levels. Three Marine reservists were sent to a home in Hollywood, Florida, this afternoon to tell a family that their son had just been killed in Iraq near Najaf. The son, Alexander Arredondo, had just turned 20. It was his second tour of duty. His father, Carlos Arredondo, was so distraught by the news he had just received that as the Marines stood outside he smashed the window of their van, threw in a can of gasoline, then set it afire using a propane torch.

Police say the father actually went inside the van, but then came out severely burned. The three Marines, who were unhurt, called 911 and tried to help the father. Afterward, the stepmother spoke about what has now become a double tragedy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMELIDA ARREDONDO, STEPMOTHER OF KILLED MARINE: Three Marines came to our door. You could see through the window. And my husband immediately knew that his first-born son had been killed. And my husband did not take the news well. I'm asking for everybody to keep us in their prayers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)


POTTER: Today is that father's 44th birthday. He's now being treated in a Miami burn unit. The Marines say they will keep watch on him and his family - Keith.

OLBERMANN: Mark, it's a morbid question. It's a valid question.

Does he face charges after something like that?

POTTER: It's a question that many people have asked, Keith. The police say they don't know yet what they are going to do. It's too early. But they have indicated that they will take into consideration all that he's been through, his emotional state, the horrific news that he received. It's not official, but the indications are that charges are probably unlikely, although, again, that decision will be made later.

OLBERMANN: Some small solace.

Mark Potter at Miami, Florida, thank you, sir.

From the consequences of a war against terror to continuing domestic efforts against it. As we mentioned here Monday, New York City has already removed mailboxes from large public areas as much as 1.5 miles away from Madison Square Garden. Tourist buses are one-half to one-quarter full and the phrase oh, I'm on vacation next week seems to have replaced hello in the lexicon of the natives.

Fear of terrorism, fear of gridlock, perhaps both. Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge cannot help with the latter, but, as Pete Williams reports, today he went to New York to sniff around about the former.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETE WILLIAMS, NBC JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While officials say there are no specific credible terror threats, security will be far more intense in New York than it was at the Democratic Convention in Boston.

MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (R), MAYOR OF NEW YORK: New York City is being well protected on land, at sea and in the air.

WILLIAMS: Protecting an incumbent president, officials say, is a more complicated mission and this convention comes closer to the November election, which intelligence analysts say al Qaeda seems determined to disrupt.


Nearly 15,000 police and federal agents will be on duty, intensively patrolling what they call the frozen zone around Madison Square Garden and keeping close guard on the two dozen delegate hotels. Snipers will watch from rooftops aided by helicopters, while harbor patrols guard bridges and landmarks and Air Force jets circle overhead for the entire week.

The Secret Service is sealing off access to the water from an adjacent building that helps chill the convention hall's air supply. With fears high of a Madrid-style train attack, rail service is getting especially close attention.

(on camera): This will be the largest mission for dogs in New York history, checking every train that comes into Penn Station.

(voice-over): But the station itself, beneath the convention site, will remain mostly open because it's the equivalent of five stories underground.

With nearly 250,000 protesters expected, police have been trained to arrest crowds that become violent, practicing with mock demonstrators. Some officers will even be equipped with TV cameras in their riot helmets, part of a stream of nearly 400 video sources feeding into the main command center, staffed by people from 66 separate agencies.

TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: It's a very complicated scenario to protect, but they've been working on it for about 18 months and we're pretty confident they've done everything they need to do to provide a safe and secure convention.

WILLIAMS: With so much to watch and worry about, the top Secret Service agent here today said this will be the biggest public security mission ever, and the toughest.

Pete Williams, NBC News, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: And then there are the only options to explain what happened to the two airliners that left Domodedovo Airport in Moscow within 45 minutes of each other yesterday. Either they accidentally crashed in the most heart-stopping coincidence in aviation history or terror has again visited Russia. Authorities are ruling out neither. At least 89 were killed in the crashes. Officials searching for six more people who checked in for the flights, but never boarded.

Witnesses on the ground reported hearing explosions before each plane when down. One of the flights reportedly activated an emergency distress signal, indicating a possible hijacking. While authorities insist so far there is no other evidence to support a conclusion of terrorism and there have been no claims of responsibility, today, the flight recorders from both planes were recovered and some clue may be contained in their data.

Lastly, the comic relief that only the dark age of terror can provide. We have nothing to fear but Bea Arthur herself. The star of TV's "Golden Girls" and "Maude" tried to board her personally chartered flight out of Boston's Logan Airport while carrying a pocket knife in her handbag. When it was discovered in screening, the 81-year-old actress reportedly said it wasn't hers and - quote - "The terrorists put it there."


But before boarding the Cape Air flight, she also surrendered a key ring to the five TSA agents at the scene, saying the terrorists had put that in her bag, too. She then added - quote - "We're all doomed." It sounds bizarre until you realize that the entire passenger manifest for that flight consisted of Bea Arthur. It was just her and pilot.

Up next, tonight's No. 2 story, one of sacrifice and heroism at sea, the dramatic Coast Guard rescue in the Gulf of Mexico.

That's ahead. First, here are COUNTDOWN's top three sound bites of this day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We got married and we'll mark our 40th wedding anniversary on Sunday.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

CHENEY: Forty more years, huh? All right. Well, I'm willing to commit for four.

(LAUGHTER)

J. ADAM ERELI, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: And if I may, I will begin by welcoming our visitors from Colombia. We have a distinguished delegation from the Southern Hemisphere.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the northern hemisphere.

ERELI: Colombia?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

ERELI: Whoa.

MELISSA BAKER, BIRD OWNER: Are you hungry? Come on, Mango. Mango, come on. Don't tell me no. Come on, Mango. You have got to come down, baby.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Still to come, a fishing trip in the Gulf of Mexico turns into a disaster. The Coast Guard is called, but not everyone could be saved - that and a bizarre new twist in the debate on how to discipline kids.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: It's as old as the legends of the Odyssey, as real as the Titanic, as new as a just-released film called "Open Water," the dream of the ocean and the nightmare that comes with it of being lost upon it.

Our No. 2 story on the COUNTDOWN tonight, another authentic version of all of the tales of tragedy at sea, with the added irony tonight reported by our correspondent Peter Alexander, that two of the men, including one who did not see land again, had the surname Fish.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER ALEXANDER, REPORTER (voice-over): In a drama set in motion by high seas and a failed engine, three fishing buddies finally spotted by a Coast Guard cutter after 54 hours drifting in the Gulf of Mexico. They were clinging desperately to their overturned boat.

LT. J.G. RICHARD GUNAGAN, U.S. COAST GUARD: They were near their limit. You can talk about two days without water.


MIKE JACKSON, RESCUED BOATER: It's a nightmare that doesn't go away.

ALEXANDER: A bittersweet moment for the men badly sunburned and stung by jellyfish, whose rescue came too late for a fourth, John Fish, who died trying to keep his father and two friends alive.

KEITH SMITH, RESCUED BOATER: He took his watch off and lit it up and showed me how to work it and put it on me. And he said, whatever you do, shine this thing. They are going to be looking for you all tonight.

ALEXANDER: John Fish, incapacitated, asked his friends for final favor.

SMITH: He said, take care of my daddy. Take care of daddy.

ALEXANDER: John Fish's friends and father are now safe at home, mourning a brave man lost at sea.

Peter Alexander, NBC News, Monticello, Georgia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: From that frightening prospect, we make quickly for less serious ground in our nightly roundup of the celebrity news that we call "Keeping Tabs."

And nothing will break that sort of tension faster than a Rodney Dangerfield story, even this one. The unstoppable 82-year-old comedian just did stop. He underwent heart surgery this morning, replacement of a valve. We don't have a further report on it. Last year, they operated on his brain to reduce his chances of having a stroke when he would have this heart operation. It sounds like something from Dr. Vinnie Boombatz.

Dangerfield checked into the UCLA Medical Center with a one-liner ready for deployment. "If things go right," he told reporters about his stay in the hospital, I will be in there about a week. If things go wrong, about an hour and a half.

And, lastly, this brief and very self-serving promotional announcement. For those of you in New York City metropolitan area, if you would like to hear a fish out of water at noon Eastern tomorrow, I will be the guest host of the radio show of the legendary rock 'n' roll disc jockey Scott Muni. The station is WAXQ in New York, 104.3 FM, noon Thursday. No Captain & Tennille will be played during this program.


Tonight's No. 1 story next, the perils of raising kids these days. It used to be a debate over a carrot and a stick. Now it's a doughnut and a hot sauce bottle. It's all on the tip of my tongue.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Reward and punishment were once the staples of child raising in this country. Whether at the home or in the school, spankings, even canings, were frequent, if not common. One of the oldest cliches was the "You go wash your mouth out with soap" bit. The rewards, you didn't spanked, caned or told to go suck on a bar of Life Boy.

Our No. 1 story on the COUNTDOWN tonight, old school revised. Do well and you get free doughnuts. Do badly and it's a little shout, a bell rung, a little Tabasco on your tongue. The oral exams, the rewards first. Students in Palm Beach County, Florida, from kindergarten through the sixth grade, have been offered a free Krispy Kreme doughnut for every A they get on their report card.

The finest fat delivery mechanism on the planet is also available to galvanize the group effort. Students can get doughnut posters for their classrooms, decorate them with success sprinkles as school goals are met and then turn the posters in for boxes of doughnuts. Free doughnuts during a childhood obesity epidemic, like smart kids don't have enough problems.

You may recoil at that idea, but I'll bet you hot sauce to doughnuts that it at least seems more palatable then the latest aversion theory being promoted by no less an authority than Lisa Whelchel, the former child actress from the series "Facts of Life," a drop of Tabasco sauce on the tongue of any little hell-raiser in your house. Whelchel's book is called "Creative Correction."

And in it, she writes, "A correction has to hurt a little. An effective deterrent has to touch the child in some way. I don't think Tabasco is such a bad thing." Authorities do not necessarily agree with her. A Maryland Home Family Services officer tells "The Washington Post" that, while there are no laws on the books against hot saucing, repeated use of it, especially on a child less than 5 years old, might induce an investigation of child abuse. Ms. Whelchel offers alternatives to Tabasco, per se, vinegar or lemon juice.

To assess the appropriateness of raising kids by increasing their waistlines and shortening their tongues, we are joined by a clinical psychologist specializing in the treatment of kids and families, also the author of "Laying Down the Law: The 25 Laws of Parenting," Dr. Ruth Peters.

Dr. Peters, good evening.

DR. RUTH PETERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Good evening, Keith. Thanks for having me.

OLBERMANN: Our pleasure.

Let's start with the hot saucing. Apart from the insight it might give us into how the child actresses were encouraged to remember their lines on "Facts of Life," is this within bounds? Is there not a terror factor in here that maybe even a spanking wouldn't carry?


PETERS: I think it's kind of dumb, to tell you the truth.

If you think about it, the method of administration, I don't know a single kid that's going to sit still when you delicately put a drop of hot sauce on their tongue. You're going to have kids wiggling around and things like that. And it's basically I think it's kind of barbaric by the time you get the hot sauce down the kid's throats. I think there are a lot, many more effective and efficient ways of getting your message and your reasoning across to a child than that barbarism, personally.

OLBERMANN: And we'll get to those in a moment.

PETERS: Yes.

OLBERMANN: But let's do the doughnuts as the rewards for A's. I don't harbor any grudge against my parents and it hasn't had any long-term ramifications for me other than the slight tick, but it was unintentional. But I know I had a similar reward system when I was a kid. And it seems to me it lost its value the moment I had enough money to go out and buy junk food myself. I'm thinking of this as kind of cynical and dastardly on the part of the Krispy Kreme Corporation.

PETERS: Well, yes, I think that is.

But the bigger problem here and the bigger issue is, should you bribe children? And absolutely yes if it gets the job done. Personally, I don't know a single fourth grader who is going to work for six or nine weeks just to get a doughnut, OK?

OLBERMANN: A doughnut.

PETERS: A doughnut?

I think that the dastardly thing is not the doughnut at six or nine weeks, but I think it's the poster in the classroom that whole time with kids working to fill it up with colored speckles and turn it in for a dozen doughnuts or two dozen doughnuts. We have a big obesity problem with kids. I think we should stay away from it. I'm not so upset about the doughnut or two every nine weeks. I am upset about the poster in the classroom.

OLBERMANN: In a minute, somebody watching this is saying, OK, smart people, I can't reward the kid with food, I can't punish him with a little McIlhenny's or (UNINTELLIGIBLE), so what do I use instead?

PETERS: OK. You quit giving the kid stuff just for showing up alive on Saturday.


Instead of giving them the allowance, you make them work for it. They should get their homework done each day. You should check up on that. You should use electronics, which is screen time, TV, computer, all of those things we just give kids as a given. And it shouldn't be. They should use it for getting their work done, not using dirty language, not using potty mouth, not having to had Tabasco put on their tongue. In other words, you have them work for their rewards.

OLBERMANN: And if they're really good, they can watch COUNTDOWN.

PETERS: If they can stay up that late if they still have their electronics privilege.

OLBERMANN: There you go. I like that. And we also touched upon one of the immutable laws of doughnuts here, which is one doughnut definitely leads to another doughnut. And we have to keep people away from these.

PETERS: And you just can't each one.

OLBERMANN: Dr. Ruth Peters, author of "Laying Down the Law" and contributor to NBC's "Today Show," we appreciate it. And great thanks to you.

PETERS: Thank you. My pleasure.

OLBERMANN: That's COUNTDOWN. Thanks for being part of it. I'm Keith Olbermann.

A doughnut with Tabasco sauce on it, think we can get some of those?

That sounds pretty much. That shows you a little bit about my youth.

Good night and good luck.

END

'Countdown with Keith Olbermann' for August 24

Guests: John DeVore, Derek Willis, John Harwood

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEITH OLBERMANN, HOST: Which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow? The president says stop all the soft money ads, including the Swift Boat ads. Going on the air in three states today, new Swift Boat ads.

Going on the screen in a gala premium here tonight, 14 new anti-Bush ads. This all seems to be quieting down, huh?

John Kerry goes one on one with the host of the newscast chosen the best by the TV Critics Association, Jon Stewart. Politics are funny.

And the Abu Ghraib investigation. It confirmed sadism, it continues to track upward but it will not require the sworn poetic testimony of Donald Rumsfeld.

And thou art weighed in the balance and found to be an elephant. This is not a 527 ad. It's a gimmick at the Louisville Zoo. And the elephant is thinking, I know I'm pleasingly plump, do we need to do this in public?


All that and more now on COUNTDOWN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Good evening. This is Tuesday, August 24. Seventy days until the 2004 presidential election. Yesterday George W. Bush told the nation, his supporters and detractors alike, that the advertisements by the organization Swift Boat Veterans For Truth should be discontinued along with all the other advertisements by the soft money so-called 527 groups.

Today the Swift Boat Vets' new ad premiered on television stations in three states meaning they either did not hear the president or they did not listen to him.

Our fifth story in the countdown, the issues be dammed, the truth be secondary. American politics continuing to tell the American voter, you can kiss my ads. If not for cable news networks like this one, it is unlikely many Americans would even see the new advertisement airing today in just four cities in just three states: Albuquerque and Harrisburg and Las Vegas and Reno, three of the places where it is thought this election will be decided. The one-minute ad highlighting Lieutenant Kerry's anti-war testimony before Congress after he came home from Vietnam. Here now, some of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kerry gave the enemy for free what I and many of my comrades in north Vietnam in the prison camps took torture to avoid saying. It demoralizes...

AD ANNOUNCER: Crimes committed on the day-to-day basis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He betrayed us in the past, how could we be loyal to him now?

AD ANNOUNCER: Ravaged the countryside in south Vietnam.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He dishonored his country and more importantly, the people he served with. He just sold them out.

AD ANNOUNCER: Swift Boat Veterans For Truth is responsible for the content of this advertisement.


(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: And since no Swift Boat ad or Swift Boat ad story would be complete without some recanting of some kind, we take you now to the Swift Boat Veterans website which claims of all the officers who served with Lieutenant Kerry, only one of them supports him now in his bid for presidency. That was news to two more Veterans in the photo, Rich McCann (ph) and Rich Baker (ph). They say they support Kerry after all.

The website lists them as neutral but McCann says he was never neutral about John Kerry only neutral about whether or not the Swift Boat Veterans should use his picture. He told "USA Today," quote, "if the question is whether John Kerry is fit to be commander in, my answer is absolutely."

Suffice to say that sometime this afternoon after Mr. McCann's comments hit the newspapers, the graphic on the Swift Boat website was updated. Funny how that happens. The Swift Boat Vets have prioritized extending their 20 days of fame well ahead of listening to their own president's admonitions about keeping this fight going. The 527 group from the left of center might best be described as having listened to Mr. Bush while sticking their fingers in their ears and singing the, "I feel like I'm fixing to die" rag by Country Joe and the Fish as loudly as they can.

Moveon.org tonight premiering in New York 14 new anti-Bush commercials featuring everybody from Howard Dean to Rebecca Romijn, from Margaret Cho to Janeane Garofalo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey. Are you a Republican?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get in. Must be hard not having a candidate for president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, Republicans would never create the largest budget deficits in history or take away personal civil liberties like privacy or due process of law and they would never send troops into war without checking all the facts. I mean, they are the party that runs things like a business, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)


OLBERMANN: Like this country and the Soviet Union in the sixties and seventies, the 527 ad arms race continues to spiral upwards. The "Wall Street Journal" reporting that a group of well connected Republicans is now starting something called The November Fund to produce ads attacking John Edwards. "It's our legal right," says group co-chair Craig Fuller speaking of the president's comments. Fuller was chief of staff to Vice President George H.W. Bush. He says the 527 horse, quote, "left the barn, left the corral, and left the ranch months ago."

The Democrats have spent over $100 million on 527s, he adds. The figure given by the Bush campaign itself on Sunday was $63 million.

One's dreams are haunted by what television will look like on October 20 of this year. The occasional commercial for the upcoming new film "Surviving Christmas" with Ben Affleck and James Gandolfini swimming hopelessly in election ad after election ad after election ad. Can anything be done to avert the catastrophe that could consume America's collective brain? Joining me now, Derek Willis of the Center for Public Integrity, a non-profit, non-partisan think-thank that investigates public policy issues like this one.

Mr. Willis, good evening.

The head of a new pro-Bush 527 group basically tells Mr. Bush to kiss off, we're going to go do it anyway. On the surface that sure looks like a literal fulfillment of the law that requires that there be no coordination between a formal campaign and a 527 but does it also mean that the 527 groups are the thing that ate the campaign? Are they unstoppable?

DEREK WILLIS, CENTER FOR PUBLIC INTEGRITY: I don't know that they're unstoppable but what they are is you can't really shut them off entirely. You could perhaps shame some of them or as Republicans have tried to do with some of Moveon's ads and as Democrats have tried to do, sort of shout down the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth ads. But they are not particularly stoppable in terms of constitutional law because there is that first amendment issue they have to deal with before they get to shutting these type of groups down.

OLBERMANN: The Republican groups have answered every criticism about the Swift Boat ads with some sort of statement like that of Mr. Fuller which I just read of this new John Edwards - or anti-John Edwards group. Well, the Democrats have spent $100 million on the same kind of ads. Is that an honest answer in your investigation and in your interpretations either in scope or in tone or is it something of a red herring?

WILLIS: The Democratic groups have spent more than $100 million but it hasn't gone all gone to advertising and in fact a good chunk of it has gone to voter registration and turnout which arguably is as important as television advertising and less viewable for the American public. It doesn't really interrupt their nightly television viewing.

OLBERMANN: The Moveon.org ads though, the ones being premiered tonight as this one here we're seeing which is one about the dismantling as they put it of the clean air regulations by the Bush administration. These are really slick. They make the Swift Boat ads, in terms of production value, we're not talking about truth or anything else, but in terms of production value they look like medium quality documentaries, while these look like, as you're just seeing in this stuff, 30-second, big budget Hollywood films. Is this - that's actually the apex of this process or are we going further from here either in expenditures or in outlandishness?

WILLIS: I don't think there is any doubt that we will probably go further in expenditures and almost certainly in outlandishness and production quality. But it's also worth noting that you don't have to have a very high production quality in order to get your message across effectively. I think the 1988 Willie Horton ads with grainy images and stark images really showed us that you cannot have great production values and still get a meaningful message across effectively to voters.

But I think the sort of the gold standard was the "Man From Hope" video in 1992 and I think that is sort of what a lot of these liberal groups are sort of shooting for, to repeat that kind of atmosphere and that takes Hollywood production value so I don't see that sort of thing going away anytime soon.

OLBERMANN: And if you make them 14 at a time, you might get lucky. Derek Willis of the Center for Public Integrity. We appreciate your insight and your time.


WILLIS: Thanks for having me.

OLBERMANN: In addition to the overall charge that 527s are eating through the woodframe of the democracy, there remains the interior question about those Swift Boat ads. Do they survive the smell test? So far they've provoked the resignation of one member of the Veterans for Bush, Kerry's steering committee recanted statements by at least one of the guys in the ads. An angry protest by now four Swift Boat Veterans who claim the group used their images and lied about their opinions without their permission. Now our chief investigative correspondent Lisa Myers tries to fact check the commercials themselves.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-five years ago, John Kerry saved my life.

LISA MYERS, MSNBC INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former Green Beret Jim Rassmann says on March 13, 1969, an injured John Kerry plucked him from the river in the face of enemy fire for which Kerry was awarded a Bronze Star and a third Purple Heart.

35 years later, this man, former Swift Boat Lieutenant Larry Thurlow is leading the charge to discredit this key chapter of Kerry's story, claiming there was no enemy fire and that Kerry exaggerated his injuries.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He lied to manufacture that third Purple Heart. The plan was to use his Vietnam experience and use that as a platform into basically a career in politics.

MYERS: Here is what everyone agrees on. Five swiftboats come to a series of poles and fishing nets stretched across the river. Three boats go around to the left and two including Kerry's go right. A mine explodes under the lead boat on the left badly injuring the crew. Kerry's boat races through on the right. In the ensuing chaos, Rassmann falls into the river and Kerry pulls him out. Kerry was honored to great personal courage under fire, but Thurlow, two swiftboat skippers and an enlisted man are now saying there was no enemy fire.

THURLOW: We took no enemy fire from either bank. There not one manned wounded. There's not one bullet hole that day in any boat.

MYERS: This battle damage report from Kerry's boat does not show any bullet holes. But this one from another boat does, three .30 caliber bullet holes. Thurlow, claims that damage was from a sniper the day before.

(on camera): What's more, Thurlow, also received a bronze star for heroism that day. And his own citation reportedly refers to "Enemy bullets flying about him."

If this is false, why did you accept the bronze star and will you now return it?


THURLOW: I knew it was false, but nobody else was going see it. I accepted it, because I felt at the time I had been given the thing because I saved the wounded on the boat and saved the boat.

MYERS: Thurlow, says that if being under enemy fire is required to earn the medal, he will give it back. Rassmann, Kerry's crew and an enlisted man on another boat insists Kerry was under significant enemy fire.

RASSMANN: He put his life on the line by coming out of that pilot and coming up and pulling me onto the deck. There was fire there. He thought he was going to get killed, I was amazed he didn't get killed.

MYERS: For you to be right, all available military documentation would have to be wrong, and all those vets supporting Kerry would have to be mistaken or lying.

THURLOW: Yes, they would.

MYERS (voice-over): There also are inconsistencies in Kerry's version of the events. His medal citation says his arm was bleeding and in pain, but a Doctor's report refers only to a contusion or bruise.

Thurlow, a Republican, acknowledges his memory may be colored over Kerry's subsequent public opposition to the war. A war still being waged today.

Lisa Myers, NBC News, Kansas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Continuing the fifth story, the first lady and the women who would be first lady, both in the news, both in unflattering light.

The newspaper in Tucson, "The Arizona Daily Star," probably made a mistake in granting Elizabeth Edwards request that she get to pick who would interview her for that newspaper. But she helped. John Edwards wife, asked that women reporter be assigned to do the feature on her, and the paper consented. But then Mrs. Edwards staff asked for Cathalena E. Burch and the paper said no way. Ms. Birch is "The Daily Star's" music critic. The newspaper says it regrets giving Mrs. Edwards input into the identity of her interviewer.

What if anything Laura Bush did at a gala in Cincinnati last night remains unconfirmed, but "The New York Post" reporting that the first lady refused to appear on the same stage as hip hop star, Sean "P. Diddy" Combs. Each was to be on hand for dedication of the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center, along side Angela Bassett, the actress, Bono from U2 and other politicians.


But according to "The Post," Mrs. Bush's people quote "Made it very clear to Freedom Center that they would not have Laura Bush appearing in the same photo op as P. Diddy." She made it to the event, he did not, leading credence to this report. Combs, himself then pulled out of the event telling organizers he had a, "Unexpected personal obligation."

Quite a surprise for Mrs. Bush's husband, if anybody would have read one of the news magazine to him, there would have been an item in there, that he would have learned about, that the man who is to introduce him at the Republican Convention a week from Thursday is reportedly making preparations to run for the presidency himself in 2008.

"Newsweek," reporting that the governor's convention scheduled, George Pataki's schedule next week reads suspiciously, aspirational. He will be the featured guest at the raiser for the New Hampshire Republican Party on Monday. New Hampshire, where the first primary is just three years and five months away. The magazine also reports, the strategy meeting, with key advisors, to discussing a possible Pataki White House run, four years hence.

His aides and advisor tried to defuse the issue today, calling it, just the political rumor mill at work. You speak as if the political rumor mill were a bad thing. Without it our special shows from the Republican Convention next we would be almost impossible.

COUNTDOWN to the convention, weekday afternoons at 5:00 p.m. Eastern, 2:00 p.m. Pacific. All the day's political news, it's non-political news and the political non-news, live at 5:00. Be there, aloha.

This edition of COUNTDOWN opening up with politics, specificly the growing barrage of 527 ads.

Up next, the Nader affect. Right now Florida is a tie without him.

Come election day, will Florida be without him?

And later, John Kerry has completed his first major interview since the swiftboat controversy surfaced. It will air on Comedy Central. What does that say about the state of decision 2004.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Tonight's No. 4 story is next. Without him, Florida is a statical dead heat in the damp heat. Will Florida be without him come election day. Ralph Nader, his story, the latest on him, next on COUNTDOWN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)


OLBERMANN: In the coil and recoil over the swiftboats in the choppy seas between the two political conventions, two important words about the 2004 election have not within spoken much recently, Ralph, Nader.

Our fourth story in the COUNTDOWN, if his performance spoiling Florida and perhaps the 2000 election for Al Gore, had not be achievement enough, the independent presidential candidate has been singled out in the subject of an attack ad of his known. Recoiling at the thought of what they see as another spoiler in the maker, liberal activist group, "The Nader Factor," led by former campaign workers for Wesley Clark, Howard Dean and Dick Gephardt has taken to the airwaves.

A 60 second commercial that began running in Wisconsin and New Mexico today. And the group charges Republican groups have assisted Nader efforts to get on the ballot in key battleground states, because "The right wing believes that helping Ralph Nader helps George Bush." He certainly seems to be doing so in Florida, again.

So far, Nader, has met the qualifications to be on the ballots of only 11 states, but one of those is the sunshine where he will be included as the Reform Party Candidate. A "USA TODAY"/Gallop poll released today, shows the Democratic challenger in razor thin race for Florida.

Among likely voters, the president leads the senator 48 to 46 percent; the other 2 percent to Nader. With no Nader in the poll picture, it is a dead heat. Florida's electoral votes would then go to Mr. Margin of Error.

Nader was on 43 state ballots four years ago. Florida is a yes, but he didn't make it in Missouri, South Carolina, Texas, eight others. He faces petition challenges in many more. And a spokesman's hope today that he will be on a, quote, "vast majority" of vast ballots seems optimistic. And the rumors continue of his own supporters desperately pleading with him to drop out and endorse John Kerry.

To take the Nader temperature, I'm joined again by "The Wall Street Journal's" national political editor, John Harwood. John, good evening.

JOHN HARWOOD, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Hi, Keith.

OLBERMANN: Previously on this newscast, we have psychoanalyzed why he might be running, but what about how long he can keep running? Is there a point at which the money dries up and it's not a question of snipe ads or pleadings, but just practicality?

HARWOOD: Well, as long as he has got enough money for a plane ticket, he will get some attention in some places. The question is how many people are going to get a chance to vote for him? The market is smaller for Ralph Nader this year. That means he has got less ground troops, less people willing to give him money, although he has picked up some support from Republicans, which he is happy to accept even though Democrats are protesting.

But I think Ralph Nader is going to stay at this as long as he can, see how many ballots he can get on and try to make his point.

OLBERMANN: In that one shot there, he seemed to be low on graffiti (sic). It looked there were about six pieces of paper flying by his head as he celebrated.


If he discontinued, voluntarily and involuntarily, what happens to his name on the ballots in the states he's already in? Specifically we're talking about Florida. Does it stay there anyway? Could he still impact a swing state, sort of postmortem, after the death of his campaign?

HARWOOD: Often times you can, Keith, because the process of printing ballots is moving forward, and one of the interesting things about this election is voters are going to actually start voting in just a few weeks, because so many states have gone to these easy absentee voting procedures. Some states are going to start voting in mid-September. In Florida, it's mid-October, and at that point ballots will have been printed, a lot of people will have votes in their hands and they will be able to vote for Ralph Nader, assuming that nothing has impeded his qualifications between now and then.

OLBERMANN: Who knows what the anti-Nader that we're talking about would do the audience that sees them? What will he think of them? Will they just serve to reinforce his sense of being on a mission from something?

HARWOOD: All the evidence so far suggests, Keith, this is just firming up his desire to stay in the race and try to make his point. He gets very indignant about Democrats and other liberals coming after him. There is a lot of them. He is getting a lot of flak from his own base, people who supported him last time, people who have been historically with him. And you see in these "Nader Factor" ads, they are interesting attack ads. They're not all that negative toward Nader, but they talk about the impact that he is going to have, and they are running them now, while Nader volunteers are trying to collect petitions. In some of these states, where they are trying to go to shopping malls and places to get support, they are trying to cut off his oxygen before he can get on the ballot.

OLBERMANN: John Harwood, the national political editor of "The Wall Street Journal." As always, sir, we appreciate your perspective and especially your time.

HARWOOD: My pleasure.

OLBERMANN: Later tonight on COUNTDOWN, why John Kerry gave his first big one-on-one post convention interview to Jon Stewart.

First, from being on the ballot in Florida to not getting a ballot in Florida. An investigation by the newspaper "The New York Daily News" found 46,000 New Yorkers are registered to vote in both New York State and Florida. And now both states are clamping down on them. A study of computer records found as many as 1,000 people who voted twice in at least one election, some in as many as seven. One case has been referred to Florida state's attorney general for criminal prosecution. Please leave the chads to the natives.

Numbers five and four completed. We will pause the COUNTDOWN in a moment for a nightly dose of "Oddball." Pamplona may long be over, but fear not, the bulls are running on this continent now. It's like a rock concert tour. Although they don't seem to be running too much.

And later, a 7-year-old hero. He holds it together in a moment of crisis. He saves his grandfather's life with a call to 911. And we'll listen to it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: We're back, and we take leave from the news of political wars and partisan bickering, and enter the segment full of the neat video and oh those cute little animals with 23 toes. Let's play "Oddball."


And why fly all the way to Spain for the running of the bulls when you can get the cheap Mexican knockoff right here on this continent? They have actually been running their imitation event annually for 50 years in La Montla (ph), but that does not mean they have got the whole process down just yet. It's the running part that seems to escape them.

Here, the bulls seem to be milling around in the crowd, just looking for somebody to gore, perhaps pick a pocket or pester. Of course, as in Pamplona, our four-legged friends meet the same horrible fate in the bull ring at the end of the run. That's why we're always rooting for the bulls to take a few people down with them. The organizers say they were no serious injuries to humans this year, although you might get a second opinion from that guy.

To Sturetsville (ph), Minnesota where over the last decade or so a lot of strange things have crawled out of that local pond. So when two girls found a frog with five legs, that barely raised an eyebrow. But there was something different about this five-legged frog. Something horrifying. It is 23 toes. Twenty-three toes!

Experts who know nothing about the top secret experimenters being conducted by the pedicure industry say the cause could be environmental or perhaps evolutional, or it might just be a resurgence in breeding attempts by the French National Association of Frog Leg Development.

Finally, to the Louisville zoo, where it's time to give the elephants their annual physicals. I feel like Kent Brockman.

They put it off for long enough, but every pachyderm knows the key to long-term health is exercise and regular checkups. Got to keep the weight down. Portable scales, used usually to weight tractor trailer trucks, were brought in for Dumbo and company. Mickey, the African elephant, checked in at 7,750 pounds; Paunch the Asian at 10,660, and Chuckles the Clown is no longer with us.

"Oddball" now belongs to the ages. Up next, tonight's No. 3 story:

The abuses at Abu Ghraib. One official calls it "animal house on the night shift." But the blame is clearly also going to members of the faculty.

And later, one Russian passenger aircraft crashes, another, same model, same airport, at the same time disappears. Could it be something other than terrorism? These stories ahead. First, here are COUNTDOWN's top three newsmakers of this day.

No. 3, Roy Ritenaur of Summerduck, Virginia. He was hit by lightning last week. That would be number six to Roy in just 35 years. He's one bolt short of Park Ranger Ray Sullivan's state record of seven. Good luck to you, Roy!

No. 2, Air Canada. The national airline almost lost the national treasure. Hockey's Stanley Cup trophy was bumped from a flight from Vancouver Sunday because the plane was too heavy. It was left overnight in a storage room. The cup has seen worse. It has been left on a Montreal street, put on display in a bowling alley and was once drop-kicked into Ottawa's Rideau Canal.

And, No. 1, Allyssa and Grant Kuseske. A year ago next Monday, Allyssa gave birth to twins. Last Thursday, she gave birth to two more twins. The Kuseskes live in St. Paul, which is one of Minnesota's twin cities.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: It was May 8, 2002. One passenger flight crashed off the coast of China, a second in the same day in Tunisia. That coincidence was extraordinary enough. And the timing, three days short of eight months after 9/11, still made it suspicious.

Our third story on the COUNTDOWN, terror and its presumption. Two jets of the same make and model took off from the same Russian airport on the same day. One is confirmed down and the other declared missing at almost the same time. Officials have now verified the crash of the first jet, about 125 miles south of Moscow, 42 people on bored. No survivors expected.

At about the same time, a second jet with another 46 on board vanished from radar screens about 600 miles south of Moscow. Both planes were Tupolev Tu-154 jets, a standard airliner on domestic flights in Russia. Officials are not ruling out terrorism. They have increased security at all Russian airports, but there have been no groundings reported.

There are now also reports that witnesses saw an explosion before the crash of the first aircraft. And the Interfax news agency say emergency workers spotted a fire in the region where the second aircraft vanished.

Terrorism expert MSNBC analyst Steve Emerson joins me now.

Steve, good evening.

STEVE EMERSON, NBC TERRORISM ANALYST: Good evening, Keith.

OLBERMANN: Same airport, same kind of planes, same day, same disappearance time. Are the odds not too overwhelming for this not to have been deliberate, whether it's terrorism, per se, or just sabotage of some sort?

EMERSON: No, I think you pointed out well that it could have been sabotage or terrorism. The odds of it being a spontaneous malfunction are just too great. It is always possible, but the bottom line here is that it could have been sabotage or terrorism. Investigators really don't know at this point.

OLBERMANN: Are they not, though, some of the least reliable planes? Is there not a factor which doesn't necessarily preclude terrorism? It might just be an easier target. But these are not Boeings out there.

EMERSON: I was speaking to an airplane - aviation specialist about an hour ago. And he said that this has high rate of malfunctions and certain a higher rate of disasters than other airplanes. Clearly, the fact is that they don't know at this point, as you pointed out. The coincidences are bizarre when we think about a simultaneous explosion of both planes.


OLBERMANN: If you think Russia, you think Chechen terrorists. And if you think Chechen terrorists and you think of the Russian security agency, the FSB, tonight, President Putin has ordered that the FSB investigate these two incidents.

Moscow theater atrocity, the subway bombing earlier this year. Would this be within that pattern of what the Chechen have shown their terrorist acts have shown their terrorist acts being, just kill as many people as possible and make a statement later?

EMERSON: And find vulnerabilities in the system.

Clearly, they don't even follow any pattern. They are always inventing and pushing the envelope of terrorism to the point of carrying out rock concert suicide bombings, as you pointed out, the Moscow theater episode. And so clearly right now, that is on the table. Of course, there could have been organized crime motivation here, because there is a lot of that type of sabotage and killings going on in Russia.

OLBERMANN: Map out for me lastly what the first stages of the investigation would be in Russia if there is no claim of responsibility for this. How would you go about proving that this was terror?

EMERSON: Even if there is a claim, the Chechens might - and even if they didn't take it out, do it, they might claim responsibility as an opportunistic thing. But, clearly, there are flight recorders. There's the pinning of the fragmentation. There's the issue of whether in fact the passenger manifest had been reconciled with the baggage.

So there are all these telltale signs. And I think they will be able to determine within 24 to 48 hours whether in fact it was terrorism or just sabotage done by some disgruntled organized crime motivated factor.

OLBERMANN: Or the most extraordinary set of air disasters in aviation history, I guess.

MSNBC's terrorism expert, Steve Emerson - thanks for coming in, Steve.

EMERSON: Sure.

OLBERMANN: On the other end of the terrorism stick, the U.S. military continues to investigate what went wrong in the treatment and interrogation of terror suspects in Iraq.

Since the emergence of the graphic details of prison abuse at the Abu Ghraib, the focus has been on two explanations, rogue soldiers at the prison level or misguided leadership, two explanations, now two investigations. Mannheim, Germany, a military judge presiding over the trial of seven Army reservists charged in the abuse scandal ruled out what would have been a headline-making witness. Judge James Pohl rejected a defense attorney's request to force Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to submit to an interview about what he knew about the treatment of prisoners.


Pohl stated the request for an interview could be raised again if the defense can show a Rumsfeld connection to the case.

And, last night, our correspondent Fred Francis reported from Mannheim exclusive details about a searing Pentagon inquiry into how far up the chain of command responsibility goes. Today, the full scope of that investigation, led by the former Defense Secretary James Schlesinger, became public.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRED FRANCIS, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The panel said there was chaos at the prison, severe understaffing and failures of leadership at every level, allowing sadism among a small group of G.I.s.

JAMES SCHLESINGER, CHAIRMAN OF ABU GHRAIB INVESTIGATIVE PANEL: Sadism that was certainly not organized. It was a kind of animal house on the night shift.

FRANCIS: Schlesinger and the others on the panel said the actions of some M.P.s did not result from a policy of torture and abuse, but from serious gaps and confusion in lines of command.

TILLIE FOWLER, ABU GHRAIB PANEL MEMBER: It was shocking to find that during the time the worst abuses that were occurring, it was not clear who if anyone was really in charge at Abu Ghraib.

FRANCIS: Today, Schlesinger was only mildly critical of the secretary of defense, saying his office was only indirectly to blame.

There was harsher criticism for his top generals. And the panel directed its toughest words for the senior officers at Abu Ghraib, saying they should have known what was going on.

(on camera): The news from Washington was good for some of the accused M.P.s who had pretrial hearings here in Germany, giving credence to their defense that they did not act alone, that now in an official report some of their senior officers share some of the blame.

The lawyer for Sergeant Ivan Frederick, who agreed to plead guilty to some charges this week, thinks the numbers of accused will grow.

GARY MYERS, ATTORNEY FOR IVAN FREDERICK: After today, we will no longer hear that it was just seven rogue soldiers. After today, the second line of defense from the government seems to be now that it was just 28 rogue soldiers.


FRANCIS (voice-over): Sergeant Frederick said the guilty plea will end a nightmare that began when he was assigned to the prison.

IVAN FREDERICK, CHARGED IN ABU GHRAIB SCANDAL: Everything just went down hill since we got to Abu Ghraib in October, that the whole mission just turned upside down.

FRANCIS: Upside down for the Pentagon, too, and no end is near. In the military court here today, Army prosecutors said for the first time that officers may be charged.

Fred Francis, NBC News, Mannheim, Germany.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Back in Iraq itself, despite another apparent cease-fire agreement, despite the release of an American hostage, nothing is yet settled in Najaf.

For the third night in a row, strong explosions rocked that city, bombings conducted by U.S. aircraft intended to tighten the ring around insurgents loyal to the Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. The Iraq government's troops have now closed to within 200 yards, as close as they have gotten yet of the Imam Ali shrine, where al-Sadr and his supporters remain.

Iraqi's defense minister says the insurgents have only hours to surrender or they will face a violent raid.

Two stories left on COUNTDOWN. Up next, little boy, big hero, how a 7-year-old kid managed to save his grandfather's life. Then later, a heavenly new job for Ellen DeGeneres, reprising a classic George Burns' role.

But, first, here are COUNTDOWN's top three sound bites of this day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARTURO SANTIAGO: And take a look down this street here. This - this has been closed down - whoa. OK, we almost got hit by an automobile here. Sorry about that, folks. Caution tape almost took our light out and my head off. Let's try to help her out here a little bit here. This is an elderly woman.


LAURA MCPHERSON, REPORTER: The chase finally ended when the car came to a stop right up there on the Franklin Road overpass. Some driver tells us that he had a perfectly good explanation for not wanting to stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just told you because I'm drunk and I ain't got a license.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: General Myers, the vice president, and Condi and I just had a long-ranging discussion with our key members of the defense team about a variety of subjects. We talked about Iraq. We're making progress on the ground. We were briefed not...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Still ahead on COUNTDOWN, a child's heroism at a time of crisis, the call to 911 that saved his grandfather's life. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: What was life like for you at the age of 7? Tom Sawyer's summers, a world where everything was silly and life consisted of a series of cascading snickers. Did you have fun? Did you ever save somebody's life?

Our second story on the COUNTDOWN tonight, 7 years old and when crisis came, he knew exactly what to do.

Our correspondent is Cheryl Preheim of our station in Denver, KUSA.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good catch.


CHERYL PREHEIM, KUSA REPORTER (voice-over): Seven-year-old Trystan Meadows (ph) and his grandpa are bed buds.

TRYSTAN: We do a lot of stuff with each other.

PREHEIM: They will have many more special times like this.

TRYSTAN: Let's try it again, grandpa.

PREHEIM: He Trystan knew just what to do when his grandpa collapsed.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TRYSTAN: Hello, my grandpa, he fell and now he can't talk. I need help immediately.

SHENIKWA TIGNER, DISPATCHER: OK. how old are you, honey?

TRYSTAN: Seven.

TIGNER: You're 7. OK.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TRYSTAN: He was doing weird movements.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Having a seizure. I guess my arms were flailing, my legs.

TRYSTAN: The lady on the phone told me what to do.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TIGNER: I want to go lay your ear next to his nose and listen for him to breath and his chest.

TRYSTAN: OK, he's breathing because I think he's snoring.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PREHEIM: Shenikwa Tigner was the dispatcher that day.

TIGNER: We deal with people at the worse moments of their lives and this kid held it together the whole way. So he did awesome.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TIGNER: Push his forehead back until his chin tilts up.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was amazing that a 7-year-old had that much presence.


TRYSTAN: I was scared.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TIGNER: You need to stay right there with him.

TRYSTAN: This is so, so scary.

TIGNER: OK, you are doing really good, sweetie, OK?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PREHEIM: The ambulance came within five minutes.

LT. BILL BRANDT, AURORA FIRE DEPARTMENT: Oh, it was a very serious call. Yes, he was completely unconscious and unresponsive when we got there.

PREHEIM: Aurora Fire paramedics say the fast call to 911 saved grandpa Meadows his life. Now Trystan is an honorary junior EMT.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am so proud of my little boy.

PREHEIM: And a hero in his grandpa's eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm so glad he was there.


(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Cheryl Preheim of KUSA in Denver reporting there.

Time to make the nightly segue from the top five stories to the top fame stories, the segment we like to call "Keeping Tabs."

And the most eagerly anticipated witness, if not the most important one, in the Scott Peterson murder case can go home now. Under cross-examination, Amber Frey maintained her composure today, replying to Mark Geragos's questions calmly, telling the court that Peterson had never asked her not to go to the police, that he was never violent with her, that he never actually said he loved her.

She never even looked at him as she spoke. Geragos even played one of Ms. Frey's recorded conversations in which she asks Scott Peterson about his wife's disappearance, saying - quote - "I assume that she is missing because you love me, right?" To which Peterson replied, "Amber, she is missing because someone abducted her."

More traditional tabs, another Hollywood movie remake, but this one has as big a twist as you might be able to imagine. God is not merely a woman. She is a lesbian and for that matter she is a lesbian talk show host. I knew it. Warner Brothers casting Ellen DeGeneres to star in the remake of the 1977 comedy "Oh, God." The producer of the new film produced the original two in which the deity was played by George Burns, not exactly the same kind of character.

Fortunately, nobody has nominated Russell Crowe. A British tabloid

says the intense Australian actor has pulled a Mike Tyson and bit the ear

of a friend and bodyguard named Spud. London's "Sunday Mirror" reports

that Crowe was in Toronto filming ironically enough a boxing picture and

out having a few beers with his bodyguard Spud Carroll, when Carroll

suggested it was time for Crowe to go home to the wife and kid. Crowe then


· quote - "flipped," according to a supposed witness, and bit his friend.

And it's not truly fair to his friends or family, but the line is irresistible and it has already been nationwide and locally. The man who coined the term "Elvis has left the building" has left the building. Al Dvorin was not the first arena announcer to actually use the phrase in hopes of clearing out hangers-around after Elvis Presley concerts, but he was the most famous and he used it for years and years. Dvorin died in a traffic accident just days after his last performance at a concert and panel discussion by the Elvis impersonator Paul Casey in California over the weekend. Al Dvorin was 81 years old.

Still ahead of us here on COUNTDOWN, you will see why one of these men is giving his first one-on-one interview in weeks to a guy who was once the host of the TV series "Short Attention Span Theater."

Stand by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Every day on this newscast, we walk a fine line, trying to balance the required effort at responsible journalism with the option to frequently focus on the less serious issues - oh, a kitty.

(LAUGHTER)

OLBERMANN: Nobody here thinks we're reshaping the world. It just is beginning to look more and more like our cockeyed view of it.

The No. 1 story on the COUNTDOWN tonight, for his first national one-on-one interview in weeks, Democratic candidate John Kerry selected a man whose previous journalistic credentials include hosting the Comedy Channel's "Short Attention Span Theater," a cameo in a Steve Martin movie and his role listed 40th in the credits in the pot-smoking genre film classic "Half-Baked," Jon Stewart of Comedy Central's "The Daily Show."

Not to question his intelligence, nor the biting wit of his program - and my 25 years in broadcasting basically divvy up into 20 years of sports and five of news - but today's sit-down, at-length interview with Kerry seemed to signal a sea change in the relationship between satirical television pseudo-news and the real world of contemporary politics.

Responding to a question abortion swift boat ads, the senator said - quote - "It is disappointing, because I think most Americans would like to have a much more intelligent conversation about where the country is going." But he also told Stewart, "Believe it or not, I've been through worse."

Political satirist John DeVore is now an associate editor with "Maxim" magazine. He was the lead writer for "The Daily Show" and "Indecision 2000" Web sites.


Mr. DeVore, good evening.

JOHN DEVORE, "MAXIM": How you doing, Keith? What's up?

OLBERMANN: Is this phenomenon purely a party thing? Could you ever see George Bush doing a one-on-one with Jon Stewart or is this John Kerry going where his potential voters are?

DEVORE: Well, you know, first of all, I don't think it's an alliance between comedy and politics. I think politicians are using the satire platform to get their message out, Keith.

OLBERMANN: And yet much of the destruction of the fire wall, if you will, between those - thou shalt not go where humor or entertainment is used was in some way enabled by Rush Limbaugh, wasn't it? Didn't this sort of erasure start with the conservatives?

DEVORE: Oh, sure.

Limbaugh for years, fruitcake that he is, used - told people that he was an entertainer, that he made jokes, that he wasn't this fanatical like right-wing comedian - or, rather, ideologue, but he always kind of hid behind the veneer of comedy. And a lot of - like Air America is another liberal example of that.

OLBERMANN: Was Jon Stewart's show in particular and in fact the whole concept of mixing news and satire authenticated earlier this year when Ted Koppel said - let me get the quote exactly right - "A lot of television viewers, more quite frankly than I'm comfortable with, get their news from a program called 'The Daily Show'"?

With a statement like that, was he saying to people who watch "The Daily Show" or perhaps some of the spillover that watches this one, you're going to sit there and be bored and you're going to watch us whether you like us or not?

DEVORE: You know, it made me feel sorry actually for Ted when I saw him make that statement. I wanted to give him a hug. That was more of a message from another era of the three network era kind of being upset that people are finding new platforms in which to get their political information.

It just kind of made me sad, actually, that that happened,really. I mean, Ted is behind the times.

OLBERMANN: Can this get - can this go further? Is there something that's going to wind up where a presidential candidate is interviewed by "Space Ghost Coast to Coast" or something?


(LAUGHTER)

DEVORE: I don't know. It's weird, this election cycle. It's like the marriage between Milton Berle and Lee Atwater, this use of humor as a facade for political agenda.

I think - it's like Bill Clinton used Arsenio Hall's show playing saxophone to great effect. So I don't really think there's anything strange about this combination of like entertainment and politics.

OLBERMANN: Well, it was - it certainly is not as strange as that sight we just saw there of the motorcycle ride of John Kerry onto the "Jay Leno" set. And, by the way, thank you for passing the information on. I didn't know that Lee Atwater and Milton Berle actually had gotten married.

DEVORE: They had a love child, actually.

OLBERMANN: John DeVore of "Maxim" magazine, thank you for your time tonight, sir.

DEVORE: Thank you, Keith.

OLBERMANN: A final reminder. Next week, when the Republicans go to New York, we will, too, COUNTDOWN to the convention, 5:00 p.m. Eastern, 2:00 Pacific, next week here on MSNBC. Be there. Aloha.

That's COUNTDOWN. Thanks for being part of it. I'm Keith Olbermann.

Good night and good luck.

_END _


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KEITH OLBERMANN, HOST: Which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow? The president says stop all the soft money ads, including the Swift Boat ads. Going on the air in three states today, new Swift Boat ads.

Going on the screen in a gala premium here tonight, 14 new anti-Bush ads. This all seems to be quieting down, huh?

John Kerry goes one on one with the host of the newscast chosen the best by the TV Critics Association, Jon Stewart. Politics are funny.

And the Abu Ghraib investigation. It confirmed sadism, it continues to track upward but it will not require the sworn poetic testimony of Donald Rumsfeld.

And thou art weighed in the balance and found to be an elephant. This is not a 527 ad. It's a gimmick at the Louisville Zoo. And the elephant is thinking, I know I'm pleasingly plump, do we need to do this in public?


All that and more now on COUNTDOWN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Good evening. This is Tuesday, August 24. Seventy days until the 2004 presidential election. Yesterday George W. Bush told the nation, his supporters and detractors alike, that the advertisements by the organization Swift Boat Veterans For Truth should be discontinued along with all the other advertisements by the soft money so-called 527 groups.

Today the Swift Boat Vets' new ad premiered on television stations in three states meaning they either did not hear the president or they did not listen to him.

Our fifth story in the countdown, the issues be dammed, the truth be secondary. American politics continuing to tell the American voter, you can kiss my ads. If not for cable news networks like this one, it is unlikely many Americans would even see the new advertisement airing today in just four cities in just three states: Albuquerque and Harrisburg and Las Vegas and Reno, three of the places where it is thought this election will be decided. The one-minute ad highlighting Lieutenant Kerry's anti-war testimony before Congress after he came home from Vietnam. Here now, some of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kerry gave the enemy for free what I and many of my comrades in north Vietnam in the prison camps took torture to avoid saying. It demoralizes...

AD ANNOUNCER: Crimes committed on the day-to-day basis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He betrayed us in the past, how could we be loyal to him now?

AD ANNOUNCER: Ravaged the countryside in south Vietnam.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He dishonored his country and more importantly, the people he served with. He just sold them out.

AD ANNOUNCER: Swift Boat Veterans For Truth is responsible for the content of this advertisement.


(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: And since no Swift Boat ad or Swift Boat ad story would be complete without some recanting of some kind, we take you now to the Swift Boat Veterans website which claims of all the officers who served with Lieutenant Kerry, only one of them supports him now in his bid for presidency. That was news to two more Veterans in the photo, Rich McCann (ph) and Rich Baker (ph). They say they support Kerry after all.

The website lists them as neutral but McCann says he was never neutral about John Kerry only neutral about whether or not the Swift Boat Veterans should use his picture. He told "USA Today," quote, "if the question is whether John Kerry is fit to be commander in, my answer is absolutely."

Suffice to say that sometime this afternoon after Mr. McCann's comments hit the newspapers, the graphic on the Swift Boat website was updated. Funny how that happens. The Swift Boat Vets have prioritized extending their 20 days of fame well ahead of listening to their own president's admonitions about keeping this fight going. The 527 group from the left of center might best be described as having listened to Mr. Bush while sticking their fingers in their ears and singing the, "I feel like I'm fixing to die" rag by Country Joe and the Fish as loudly as they can.

Moveon.org tonight premiering in New York 14 new anti-Bush commercials featuring everybody from Howard Dean to Rebecca Romijn, from Margaret Cho to Janeane Garofalo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey. Are you a Republican?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get in. Must be hard not having a candidate for president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, Republicans would never create the largest budget deficits in history or take away personal civil liberties like privacy or due process of law and they would never send troops into war without checking all the facts. I mean, they are the party that runs things like a business, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)


OLBERMANN: Like this country and the Soviet Union in the sixties and seventies, the 527 ad arms race continues to spiral upwards. The "Wall Street Journal" reporting that a group of well connected Republicans is now starting something called The November Fund to produce ads attacking John Edwards. "It's our legal right," says group co-chair Craig Fuller speaking of the president's comments. Fuller was chief of staff to Vice President George H.W. Bush. He says the 527 horse, quote, "left the barn, left the corral, and left the ranch months ago."

The Democrats have spent over $100 million on 527s, he adds. The figure given by the Bush campaign itself on Sunday was $63 million.

One's dreams are haunted by what television will look like on October 20 of this year. The occasional commercial for the upcoming new film "Surviving Christmas" with Ben Affleck and James Gandolfini swimming hopelessly in election ad after election ad after election ad. Can anything be done to avert the catastrophe that could consume America's collective brain? Joining me now, Derek Willis of the Center for Public Integrity, a non-profit, non-partisan think-thank that investigates public policy issues like this one.

Mr. Willis, good evening.

The head of a new pro-Bush 527 group basically tells Mr. Bush to kiss off, we're going to go do it anyway. On the surface that sure looks like a literal fulfillment of the law that requires that there be no coordination between a formal campaign and a 527 but does it also mean that the 527 groups are the thing that ate the campaign? Are they unstoppable?

DEREK WILLIS, CENTER FOR PUBLIC INTEGRITY: I don't know that they're unstoppable but what they are is you can't really shut them off entirely. You could perhaps shame some of them or as Republicans have tried to do with some of Moveon's ads and as Democrats have tried to do, sort of shout down the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth ads. But they are not particularly stoppable in terms of constitutional law because there is that first amendment issue they have to deal with before they get to shutting these type of groups down.

OLBERMANN: The Republican groups have answered every criticism about the Swift Boat ads with some sort of statement like that of Mr. Fuller which I just read of this new John Edwards - or anti-John Edwards group. Well, the Democrats have spent $100 million on the same kind of ads. Is that an honest answer in your investigation and in your interpretations either in scope or in tone or is it something of a red herring?

WILLIS: The Democratic groups have spent more than $100 million but it hasn't gone all gone to advertising and in fact a good chunk of it has gone to voter registration and turnout which arguably is as important as television advertising and less viewable for the American public. It doesn't really interrupt their nightly television viewing.

OLBERMANN: The Moveon.org ads though, the ones being premiered tonight as this one here we're seeing which is one about the dismantling as they put it of the clean air regulations by the Bush administration. These are really slick. They make the Swift Boat ads, in terms of production value, we're not talking about truth or anything else, but in terms of production value they look like medium quality documentaries, while these look like, as you're just seeing in this stuff, 30-second, big budget Hollywood films. Is this - that's actually the apex of this process or are we going further from here either in expenditures or in outlandishness?

WILLIS: I don't think there is any doubt that we will probably go further in expenditures and almost certainly in outlandishness and production quality. But it's also worth noting that you don't have to have a very high production quality in order to get your message across effectively. I think the 1988 Willie Horton ads with grainy images and stark images really showed us that you cannot have great production values and still get a meaningful message across effectively to voters.

But I think the sort of the gold standard was the "Man From Hope" video in 1992 and I think that is sort of what a lot of these liberal groups are sort of shooting for, to repeat that kind of atmosphere and that takes Hollywood production value so I don't see that sort of thing going away anytime soon.

OLBERMANN: And if you make them 14 at a time, you might get lucky. Derek Willis of the Center for Public Integrity. We appreciate your insight and your time.


WILLIS: Thanks for having me.

OLBERMANN: In addition to the overall charge that 527s are eating through the woodframe of the democracy, there remains the interior question about those Swift Boat ads. Do they survive the smell test? So far they've provoked the resignation of one member of the Veterans for Bush, Kerry's steering committee recanted statements by at least one of the guys in the ads. An angry protest by now four Swift Boat Veterans who claim the group used their images and lied about their opinions without their permission. Now our chief investigative correspondent Lisa Myers tries to fact check the commercials themselves.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-five years ago, John Kerry saved my life.

LISA MYERS, MSNBC INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former Green Beret Jim Rassmann says on March 13, 1969, an injured John Kerry plucked him from the river in the face of enemy fire for which Kerry was awarded a Bronze Star and a third Purple Heart.

35 years later, this man, former Swift Boat Lieutenant Larry Thurlow is leading the charge to discredit this key chapter of Kerry's story, claiming there was no enemy fire and that Kerry exaggerated his injuries.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He lied to manufacture that third Purple Heart. The plan was to use his Vietnam experience and use that as a platform into basically a career in politics.

MYERS: Here is what everyone agrees on. Five swiftboats come to a series of poles and fishing nets stretched across the river. Three boats go around to the left and two including Kerry's go right. A mine explodes under the lead boat on the left badly injuring the crew. Kerry's boat races through on the right. In the ensuing chaos, Rassmann falls into the river and Kerry pulls him out. Kerry was honored to great personal courage under fire, but Thurlow, two swiftboat skippers and an enlisted man are now saying there was no enemy fire.

THURLOW: We took no enemy fire from either bank. There not one manned wounded. There's not one bullet hole that day in any boat.

MYERS: This battle damage report from Kerry's boat does not show any bullet holes. But this one from another boat does, three .30 caliber bullet holes. Thurlow, claims that damage was from a sniper the day before.

(on camera): What's more, Thurlow, also received a bronze star for heroism that day. And his own citation reportedly refers to "Enemy bullets flying about him."

If this is false, why did you accept the bronze star and will you now return it?


THURLOW: I knew it was false, but nobody else was going see it. I accepted it, because I felt at the time I had been given the thing because I saved the wounded on the boat and saved the boat.

MYERS: Thurlow, says that if being under enemy fire is required to earn the medal, he will give it back. Rassmann, Kerry's crew and an enlisted man on another boat insists Kerry was under significant enemy fire.

RASSMANN: He put his life on the line by coming out of that pilot and coming up and pulling me onto the deck. There was fire there. He thought he was going to get killed, I was amazed he didn't get killed.

MYERS: For you to be right, all available military documentation would have to be wrong, and all those vets supporting Kerry would have to be mistaken or lying.

THURLOW: Yes, they would.

MYERS (voice-over): There also are inconsistencies in Kerry's version of the events. His medal citation says his arm was bleeding and in pain, but a Doctor's report refers only to a contusion or bruise.

Thurlow, a Republican, acknowledges his memory may be colored over Kerry's subsequent public opposition to the war. A war still being waged today.

Lisa Myers, NBC News, Kansas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Continuing the fifth story, the first lady and the women who would be first lady, both in the news, both in unflattering light.

The newspaper in Tucson, "The Arizona Daily Star," probably made a mistake in granting Elizabeth Edwards request that she get to pick who would interview her for that newspaper. But she helped. John Edwards wife, asked that women reporter be assigned to do the feature on her, and the paper consented. But then Mrs. Edwards staff asked for Cathalena E. Burch and the paper said no way. Ms. Birch is "The Daily Star's" music critic. The newspaper says it regrets giving Mrs. Edwards input into the identity of her interviewer.

What if anything Laura Bush did at a gala in Cincinnati last night remains unconfirmed, but "The New York Post" reporting that the first lady refused to appear on the same stage as hip hop star, Sean "P. Diddy" Combs. Each was to be on hand for dedication of the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center, along side Angela Bassett, the actress, Bono from U2 and other politicians.


But according to "The Post," Mrs. Bush's people quote "Made it very clear to Freedom Center that they would not have Laura Bush appearing in the same photo op as P. Diddy." She made it to the event, he did not, leading credence to this report. Combs, himself then pulled out of the event telling organizers he had a, "Unexpected personal obligation."

Quite a surprise for Mrs. Bush's husband, if anybody would have read one of the news magazine to him, there would have been an item in there, that he would have learned about, that the man who is to introduce him at the Republican Convention a week from Thursday is reportedly making preparations to run for the presidency himself in 2008.

"Newsweek," reporting that the governor's convention scheduled, George Pataki's schedule next week reads suspiciously, aspirational. He will be the featured guest at the raiser for the New Hampshire Republican Party on Monday. New Hampshire, where the first primary is just three years and five months away. The magazine also reports, the strategy meeting, with key advisors, to discussing a possible Pataki White House run, four years hence.

His aides and advisor tried to defuse the issue today, calling it, just the political rumor mill at work. You speak as if the political rumor mill were a bad thing. Without it our special shows from the Republican Convention next we would be almost impossible.

COUNTDOWN to the convention, weekday afternoons at 5:00 p.m. Eastern, 2:00 p.m. Pacific. All the day's political news, it's non-political news and the political non-news, live at 5:00. Be there, aloha.

This edition of COUNTDOWN opening up with politics, specificly the growing barrage of 527 ads.

Up next, the Nader affect. Right now Florida is a tie without him.

Come election day, will Florida be without him?

And later, John Kerry has completed his first major interview since the swiftboat controversy surfaced. It will air on Comedy Central. What does that say about the state of decision 2004.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Tonight's No. 4 story is next. Without him, Florida is a statical dead heat in the damp heat. Will Florida be without him come election day. Ralph Nader, his story, the latest on him, next on COUNTDOWN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)


OLBERMANN: In the coil and recoil over the swiftboats in the choppy seas between the two political conventions, two important words about the 2004 election have not within spoken much recently, Ralph, Nader.

Our fourth story in the COUNTDOWN, if his performance spoiling Florida and perhaps the 2000 election for Al Gore, had not be achievement enough, the independent presidential candidate has been singled out in the subject of an attack ad of his known. Recoiling at the thought of what they see as another spoiler in the maker, liberal activist group, "The Nader Factor," led by former campaign workers for Wesley Clark, Howard Dean and Dick Gephardt has taken to the airwaves.

A 60 second commercial that began running in Wisconsin and New Mexico today. And the group charges Republican groups have assisted Nader efforts to get on the ballot in key battleground states, because "The right wing believes that helping Ralph Nader helps George Bush." He certainly seems to be doing so in Florida, again.

So far, Nader, has met the qualifications to be on the ballots of only 11 states, but one of those is the sunshine where he will be included as the Reform Party Candidate. A "USA TODAY"/Gallop poll released today, shows the Democratic challenger in razor thin race for Florida.

Among likely voters, the president leads the senator 48 to 46 percent; the other 2 percent to Nader. With no Nader in the poll picture, it is a dead heat. Florida's electoral votes would then go to Mr. Margin of Error.

Nader was on 43 state ballots four years ago. Florida is a yes, but he didn't make it in Missouri, South Carolina, Texas, eight others. He faces petition challenges in many more. And a spokesman's hope today that he will be on a, quote, "vast majority" of vast ballots seems optimistic. And the rumors continue of his own supporters desperately pleading with him to drop out and endorse John Kerry.

To take the Nader temperature, I'm joined again by "The Wall Street Journal's" national political editor, John Harwood. John, good evening.

JOHN HARWOOD, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Hi, Keith.

OLBERMANN: Previously on this newscast, we have psychoanalyzed why he might be running, but what about how long he can keep running? Is there a point at which the money dries up and it's not a question of snipe ads or pleadings, but just practicality?

HARWOOD: Well, as long as he has got enough money for a plane ticket, he will get some attention in some places. The question is how many people are going to get a chance to vote for him? The market is smaller for Ralph Nader this year. That means he has got less ground troops, less people willing to give him money, although he has picked up some support from Republicans, which he is happy to accept even though Democrats are protesting.

But I think Ralph Nader is going to stay at this as long as he can, see how many ballots he can get on and try to make his point.

OLBERMANN: In that one shot there, he seemed to be low on graffiti (sic). It looked there were about six pieces of paper flying by his head as he celebrated.


If he discontinued, voluntarily and involuntarily, what happens to his name on the ballots in the states he's already in? Specifically we're talking about Florida. Does it stay there anyway? Could he still impact a swing state, sort of postmortem, after the death of his campaign?

HARWOOD: Often times you can, Keith, because the process of printing ballots is moving forward, and one of the interesting things about this election is voters are going to actually start voting in just a few weeks, because so many states have gone to these easy absentee voting procedures. Some states are going to start voting in mid-September. In Florida, it's mid-October, and at that point ballots will have been printed, a lot of people will have votes in their hands and they will be able to vote for Ralph Nader, assuming that nothing has impeded his qualifications between now and then.

OLBERMANN: Who knows what the anti-Nader that we're talking about would do the audience that sees them? What will he think of them? Will they just serve to reinforce his sense of being on a mission from something?

HARWOOD: All the evidence so far suggests, Keith, this is just firming up his desire to stay in the race and try to make his point. He gets very indignant about Democrats and other liberals coming after him. There is a lot of them. He is getting a lot of flak from his own base, people who supported him last time, people who have been historically with him. And you see in these "Nader Factor" ads, they are interesting attack ads. They're not all that negative toward Nader, but they talk about the impact that he is going to have, and they are running them now, while Nader volunteers are trying to collect petitions. In some of these states, where they are trying to go to shopping malls and places to get support, they are trying to cut off his oxygen before he can get on the ballot.

OLBERMANN: John Harwood, the national political editor of "The Wall Street Journal." As always, sir, we appreciate your perspective and especially your time.

HARWOOD: My pleasure.

OLBERMANN: Later tonight on COUNTDOWN, why John Kerry gave his first big one-on-one post convention interview to Jon Stewart.

First, from being on the ballot in Florida to not getting a ballot in Florida. An investigation by the newspaper "The New York Daily News" found 46,000 New Yorkers are registered to vote in both New York State and Florida. And now both states are clamping down on them. A study of computer records found as many as 1,000 people who voted twice in at least one election, some in as many as seven. One case has been referred to Florida state's attorney general for criminal prosecution. Please leave the chads to the natives.

Numbers five and four completed. We will pause the COUNTDOWN in a moment for a nightly dose of "Oddball." Pamplona may long be over, but fear not, the bulls are running on this continent now. It's like a rock concert tour. Although they don't seem to be running too much.

And later, a 7-year-old hero. He holds it together in a moment of crisis. He saves his grandfather's life with a call to 911. And we'll listen to it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: We're back, and we take leave from the news of political wars and partisan bickering, and enter the segment full of the neat video and oh those cute little animals with 23 toes. Let's play "Oddball."


And why fly all the way to Spain for the running of the bulls when you can get the cheap Mexican knockoff right here on this continent? They have actually been running their imitation event annually for 50 years in La Montla (ph), but that does not mean they have got the whole process down just yet. It's the running part that seems to escape them.

Here, the bulls seem to be milling around in the crowd, just looking for somebody to gore, perhaps pick a pocket or pester. Of course, as in Pamplona, our four-legged friends meet the same horrible fate in the bull ring at the end of the run. That's why we're always rooting for the bulls to take a few people down with them. The organizers say they were no serious injuries to humans this year, although you might get a second opinion from that guy.

To Sturetsville (ph), Minnesota where over the last decade or so a lot of strange things have crawled out of that local pond. So when two girls found a frog with five legs, that barely raised an eyebrow. But there was something different about this five-legged frog. Something horrifying. It is 23 toes. Twenty-three toes!

Experts who know nothing about the top secret experimenters being conducted by the pedicure industry say the cause could be environmental or perhaps evolutional, or it might just be a resurgence in breeding attempts by the French National Association of Frog Leg Development.

Finally, to the Louisville zoo, where it's time to give the elephants their annual physicals. I feel like Kent Brockman.

They put it off for long enough, but every pachyderm knows the key to long-term health is exercise and regular checkups. Got to keep the weight down. Portable scales, used usually to weight tractor trailer trucks, were brought in for Dumbo and company. Mickey, the African elephant, checked in at 7,750 pounds; Paunch the Asian at 10,660, and Chuckles the Clown is no longer with us.

"Oddball" now belongs to the ages. Up next, tonight's No. 3 story:

The abuses at Abu Ghraib. One official calls it "animal house on the night shift." But the blame is clearly also going to members of the faculty.

And later, one Russian passenger aircraft crashes, another, same model, same airport, at the same time disappears. Could it be something other than terrorism? These stories ahead. First, here are COUNTDOWN's top three newsmakers of this day.

No. 3, Roy Ritenaur of Summerduck, Virginia. He was hit by lightning last week. That would be number six to Roy in just 35 years. He's one bolt short of Park Ranger Ray Sullivan's state record of seven. Good luck to you, Roy!

No. 2, Air Canada. The national airline almost lost the national treasure. Hockey's Stanley Cup trophy was bumped from a flight from Vancouver Sunday because the plane was too heavy. It was left overnight in a storage room. The cup has seen worse. It has been left on a Montreal street, put on display in a bowling alley and was once drop-kicked into Ottawa's Rideau Canal.

And, No. 1, Allyssa and Grant Kuseske. A year ago next Monday, Allyssa gave birth to twins. Last Thursday, she gave birth to two more twins. The Kuseskes live in St. Paul, which is one of Minnesota's twin cities.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: It was May 8, 2002. One passenger flight crashed off the coast of China, a second in the same day in Tunisia. That coincidence was extraordinary enough. And the timing, three days short of eight months after 9/11, still made it suspicious.

Our third story on the COUNTDOWN, terror and its presumption. Two jets of the same make and model took off from the same Russian airport on the same day. One is confirmed down and the other declared missing at almost the same time. Officials have now verified the crash of the first jet, about 125 miles south of Moscow, 42 people on bored. No survivors expected.

At about the same time, a second jet with another 46 on board vanished from radar screens about 600 miles south of Moscow. Both planes were Tupolev Tu-154 jets, a standard airliner on domestic flights in Russia. Officials are not ruling out terrorism. They have increased security at all Russian airports, but there have been no groundings reported.

There are now also reports that witnesses saw an explosion before the crash of the first aircraft. And the Interfax news agency say emergency workers spotted a fire in the region where the second aircraft vanished.

Terrorism expert MSNBC analyst Steve Emerson joins me now.

Steve, good evening.

STEVE EMERSON, NBC TERRORISM ANALYST: Good evening, Keith.

OLBERMANN: Same airport, same kind of planes, same day, same disappearance time. Are the odds not too overwhelming for this not to have been deliberate, whether it's terrorism, per se, or just sabotage of some sort?

EMERSON: No, I think you pointed out well that it could have been sabotage or terrorism. The odds of it being a spontaneous malfunction are just too great. It is always possible, but the bottom line here is that it could have been sabotage or terrorism. Investigators really don't know at this point.

OLBERMANN: Are they not, though, some of the least reliable planes? Is there not a factor which doesn't necessarily preclude terrorism? It might just be an easier target. But these are not Boeings out there.

EMERSON: I was speaking to an airplane - aviation specialist about an hour ago. And he said that this has high rate of malfunctions and certain a higher rate of disasters than other airplanes. Clearly, the fact is that they don't know at this point, as you pointed out. The coincidences are bizarre when we think about a simultaneous explosion of both planes.


OLBERMANN: If you think Russia, you think Chechen terrorists. And if you think Chechen terrorists and you think of the Russian security agency, the FSB, tonight, President Putin has ordered that the FSB investigate these two incidents.

Moscow theater atrocity, the subway bombing earlier this year. Would this be within that pattern of what the Chechen have shown their terrorist acts have shown their terrorist acts being, just kill as many people as possible and make a statement later?

EMERSON: And find vulnerabilities in the system.

Clearly, they don't even follow any pattern. They are always inventing and pushing the envelope of terrorism to the point of carrying out rock concert suicide bombings, as you pointed out, the Moscow theater episode. And so clearly right now, that is on the table. Of course, there could have been organized crime motivation here, because there is a lot of that type of sabotage and killings going on in Russia.

OLBERMANN: Map out for me lastly what the first stages of the investigation would be in Russia if there is no claim of responsibility for this. How would you go about proving that this was terror?

EMERSON: Even if there is a claim, the Chechens might - and even if they didn't take it out, do it, they might claim responsibility as an opportunistic thing. But, clearly, there are flight recorders. There's the pinning of the fragmentation. There's the issue of whether in fact the passenger manifest had been reconciled with the baggage.

So there are all these telltale signs. And I think they will be able to determine within 24 to 48 hours whether in fact it was terrorism or just sabotage done by some disgruntled organized crime motivated factor.

OLBERMANN: Or the most extraordinary set of air disasters in aviation history, I guess.

MSNBC's terrorism expert, Steve Emerson - thanks for coming in, Steve.

EMERSON: Sure.

OLBERMANN: On the other end of the terrorism stick, the U.S. military continues to investigate what went wrong in the treatment and interrogation of terror suspects in Iraq.

Since the emergence of the graphic details of prison abuse at the Abu Ghraib, the focus has been on two explanations, rogue soldiers at the prison level or misguided leadership, two explanations, now two investigations. Mannheim, Germany, a military judge presiding over the trial of seven Army reservists charged in the abuse scandal ruled out what would have been a headline-making witness. Judge James Pohl rejected a defense attorney's request to force Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to submit to an interview about what he knew about the treatment of prisoners.


Pohl stated the request for an interview could be raised again if the defense can show a Rumsfeld connection to the case.

And, last night, our correspondent Fred Francis reported from Mannheim exclusive details about a searing Pentagon inquiry into how far up the chain of command responsibility goes. Today, the full scope of that investigation, led by the former Defense Secretary James Schlesinger, became public.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRED FRANCIS, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The panel said there was chaos at the prison, severe understaffing and failures of leadership at every level, allowing sadism among a small group of G.I.s.

JAMES SCHLESINGER, CHAIRMAN OF ABU GHRAIB INVESTIGATIVE PANEL: Sadism that was certainly not organized. It was a kind of animal house on the night shift.

FRANCIS: Schlesinger and the others on the panel said the actions of some M.P.s did not result from a policy of torture and abuse, but from serious gaps and confusion in lines of command.

TILLIE FOWLER, ABU GHRAIB PANEL MEMBER: It was shocking to find that during the time the worst abuses that were occurring, it was not clear who if anyone was really in charge at Abu Ghraib.

FRANCIS: Today, Schlesinger was only mildly critical of the secretary of defense, saying his office was only indirectly to blame.

There was harsher criticism for his top generals. And the panel directed its toughest words for the senior officers at Abu Ghraib, saying they should have known what was going on.

(on camera): The news from Washington was good for some of the accused M.P.s who had pretrial hearings here in Germany, giving credence to their defense that they did not act alone, that now in an official report some of their senior officers share some of the blame.

The lawyer for Sergeant Ivan Frederick, who agreed to plead guilty to some charges this week, thinks the numbers of accused will grow.

GARY MYERS, ATTORNEY FOR IVAN FREDERICK: After today, we will no longer hear that it was just seven rogue soldiers. After today, the second line of defense from the government seems to be now that it was just 28 rogue soldiers.


FRANCIS (voice-over): Sergeant Frederick said the guilty plea will end a nightmare that began when he was assigned to the prison.

IVAN FREDERICK, CHARGED IN ABU GHRAIB SCANDAL: Everything just went down hill since we got to Abu Ghraib in October, that the whole mission just turned upside down.

FRANCIS: Upside down for the Pentagon, too, and no end is near. In the military court here today, Army prosecutors said for the first time that officers may be charged.

Fred Francis, NBC News, Mannheim, Germany.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Back in Iraq itself, despite another apparent cease-fire agreement, despite the release of an American hostage, nothing is yet settled in Najaf.

For the third night in a row, strong explosions rocked that city, bombings conducted by U.S. aircraft intended to tighten the ring around insurgents loyal to the Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. The Iraq government's troops have now closed to within 200 yards, as close as they have gotten yet of the Imam Ali shrine, where al-Sadr and his supporters remain.

Iraqi's defense minister says the insurgents have only hours to surrender or they will face a violent raid.

Two stories left on COUNTDOWN. Up next, little boy, big hero, how a 7-year-old kid managed to save his grandfather's life. Then later, a heavenly new job for Ellen DeGeneres, reprising a classic George Burns' role.

But, first, here are COUNTDOWN's top three sound bites of this day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARTURO SANTIAGO: And take a look down this street here. This - this has been closed down - whoa. OK, we almost got hit by an automobile here. Sorry about that, folks. Caution tape almost took our light out and my head off. Let's try to help her out here a little bit here. This is an elderly woman.


LAURA MCPHERSON, REPORTER: The chase finally ended when the car came to a stop right up there on the Franklin Road overpass. Some driver tells us that he had a perfectly good explanation for not wanting to stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just told you because I'm drunk and I ain't got a license.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: General Myers, the vice president, and Condi and I just had a long-ranging discussion with our key members of the defense team about a variety of subjects. We talked about Iraq. We're making progress on the ground. We were briefed not...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Still ahead on COUNTDOWN, a child's heroism at a time of crisis, the call to 911 that saved his grandfather's life. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: What was life like for you at the age of 7? Tom Sawyer's summers, a world where everything was silly and life consisted of a series of cascading snickers. Did you have fun? Did you ever save somebody's life?

Our second story on the COUNTDOWN tonight, 7 years old and when crisis came, he knew exactly what to do.

Our correspondent is Cheryl Preheim of our station in Denver, KUSA.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good catch.


CHERYL PREHEIM, KUSA REPORTER (voice-over): Seven-year-old Trystan Meadows (ph) and his grandpa are bed buds.

TRYSTAN: We do a lot of stuff with each other.

PREHEIM: They will have many more special times like this.

TRYSTAN: Let's try it again, grandpa.

PREHEIM: He Trystan knew just what to do when his grandpa collapsed.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TRYSTAN: Hello, my grandpa, he fell and now he can't talk. I need help immediately.

SHENIKWA TIGNER, DISPATCHER: OK. how old are you, honey?

TRYSTAN: Seven.

TIGNER: You're 7. OK.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TRYSTAN: He was doing weird movements.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Having a seizure. I guess my arms were flailing, my legs.

TRYSTAN: The lady on the phone told me what to do.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TIGNER: I want to go lay your ear next to his nose and listen for him to breath and his chest.

TRYSTAN: OK, he's breathing because I think he's snoring.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PREHEIM: Shenikwa Tigner was the dispatcher that day.

TIGNER: We deal with people at the worse moments of their lives and this kid held it together the whole way. So he did awesome.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TIGNER: Push his forehead back until his chin tilts up.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was amazing that a 7-year-old had that much presence.


TRYSTAN: I was scared.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TIGNER: You need to stay right there with him.

TRYSTAN: This is so, so scary.

TIGNER: OK, you are doing really good, sweetie, OK?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PREHEIM: The ambulance came within five minutes.

LT. BILL BRANDT, AURORA FIRE DEPARTMENT: Oh, it was a very serious call. Yes, he was completely unconscious and unresponsive when we got there.

PREHEIM: Aurora Fire paramedics say the fast call to 911 saved grandpa Meadows his life. Now Trystan is an honorary junior EMT.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am so proud of my little boy.

PREHEIM: And a hero in his grandpa's eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm so glad he was there.


(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Cheryl Preheim of KUSA in Denver reporting there.

Time to make the nightly segue from the top five stories to the top fame stories, the segment we like to call "Keeping Tabs."

And the most eagerly anticipated witness, if not the most important one, in the Scott Peterson murder case can go home now. Under cross-examination, Amber Frey maintained her composure today, replying to Mark Geragos's questions calmly, telling the court that Peterson had never asked her not to go to the police, that he was never violent with her, that he never actually said he loved her.

She never even looked at him as she spoke. Geragos even played one of Ms. Frey's recorded conversations in which she asks Scott Peterson about his wife's disappearance, saying - quote - "I assume that she is missing because you love me, right?" To which Peterson replied, "Amber, she is missing because someone abducted her."

More traditional tabs, another Hollywood movie remake, but this one has as big a twist as you might be able to imagine. God is not merely a woman. She is a lesbian and for that matter she is a lesbian talk show host. I knew it. Warner Brothers casting Ellen DeGeneres to star in the remake of the 1977 comedy "Oh, God." The producer of the new film produced the original two in which the deity was played by George Burns, not exactly the same kind of character.

Fortunately, nobody has nominated Russell Crowe. A British tabloid

says the intense Australian actor has pulled a Mike Tyson and bit the ear

of a friend and bodyguard named Spud. London's "Sunday Mirror" reports

that Crowe was in Toronto filming ironically enough a boxing picture and

out having a few beers with his bodyguard Spud Carroll, when Carroll

suggested it was time for Crowe to go home to the wife and kid. Crowe then


· quote - "flipped," according to a supposed witness, and bit his friend.

And it's not truly fair to his friends or family, but the line is irresistible and it has already been nationwide and locally. The man who coined the term "Elvis has left the building" has left the building. Al Dvorin was not the first arena announcer to actually use the phrase in hopes of clearing out hangers-around after Elvis Presley concerts, but he was the most famous and he used it for years and years. Dvorin died in a traffic accident just days after his last performance at a concert and panel discussion by the Elvis impersonator Paul Casey in California over the weekend. Al Dvorin was 81 years old.

Still ahead of us here on COUNTDOWN, you will see why one of these men is giving his first one-on-one interview in weeks to a guy who was once the host of the TV series "Short Attention Span Theater."

Stand by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Every day on this newscast, we walk a fine line, trying to balance the required effort at responsible journalism with the option to frequently focus on the less serious issues - oh, a kitty.

(LAUGHTER)

OLBERMANN: Nobody here thinks we're reshaping the world. It just is beginning to look more and more like our cockeyed view of it.

The No. 1 story on the COUNTDOWN tonight, for his first national one-on-one interview in weeks, Democratic candidate John Kerry selected a man whose previous journalistic credentials include hosting the Comedy Channel's "Short Attention Span Theater," a cameo in a Steve Martin movie and his role listed 40th in the credits in the pot-smoking genre film classic "Half-Baked," Jon Stewart of Comedy Central's "The Daily Show."

Not to question his intelligence, nor the biting wit of his program - and my 25 years in broadcasting basically divvy up into 20 years of sports and five of news - but today's sit-down, at-length interview with Kerry seemed to signal a sea change in the relationship between satirical television pseudo-news and the real world of contemporary politics.

Responding to a question abortion swift boat ads, the senator said - quote - "It is disappointing, because I think most Americans would like to have a much more intelligent conversation about where the country is going." But he also told Stewart, "Believe it or not, I've been through worse."

Political satirist John DeVore is now an associate editor with "Maxim" magazine. He was the lead writer for "The Daily Show" and "Indecision 2000" Web sites.


Mr. DeVore, good evening.

JOHN DEVORE, "MAXIM": How you doing, Keith? What's up?

OLBERMANN: Is this phenomenon purely a party thing? Could you ever see George Bush doing a one-on-one with Jon Stewart or is this John Kerry going where his potential voters are?

DEVORE: Well, you know, first of all, I don't think it's an alliance between comedy and politics. I think politicians are using the satire platform to get their message out, Keith.

OLBERMANN: And yet much of the destruction of the fire wall, if you will, between those - thou shalt not go where humor or entertainment is used was in some way enabled by Rush Limbaugh, wasn't it? Didn't this sort of erasure start with the conservatives?

DEVORE: Oh, sure.

Limbaugh for years, fruitcake that he is, used - told people that he was an entertainer, that he made jokes, that he wasn't this fanatical like right-wing comedian - or, rather, ideologue, but he always kind of hid behind the veneer of comedy. And a lot of - like Air America is another liberal example of that.

OLBERMANN: Was Jon Stewart's show in particular and in fact the whole concept of mixing news and satire authenticated earlier this year when Ted Koppel said - let me get the quote exactly right - "A lot of television viewers, more quite frankly than I'm comfortable with, get their news from a program called 'The Daily Show'"?

With a statement like that, was he saying to people who watch "The Daily Show" or perhaps some of the spillover that watches this one, you're going to sit there and be bored and you're going to watch us whether you like us or not?

DEVORE: You know, it made me feel sorry actually for Ted when I saw him make that statement. I wanted to give him a hug. That was more of a message from another era of the three network era kind of being upset that people are finding new platforms in which to get their political information.

It just kind of made me sad, actually, that that happened,really. I mean, Ted is behind the times.

OLBERMANN: Can this get - can this go further? Is there something that's going to wind up where a presidential candidate is interviewed by "Space Ghost Coast to Coast" or something?


(LAUGHTER)

DEVORE: I don't know. It's weird, this election cycle. It's like the marriage between Milton Berle and Lee Atwater, this use of humor as a facade for political agenda.

I think - it's like Bill Clinton used Arsenio Hall's show playing saxophone to great effect. So I don't really think there's anything strange about this combination of like entertainment and politics.

OLBERMANN: Well, it was - it certainly is not as strange as that sight we just saw there of the motorcycle ride of John Kerry onto the "Jay Leno" set. And, by the way, thank you for passing the information on. I didn't know that Lee Atwater and Milton Berle actually had gotten married.

DEVORE: They had a love child, actually.

OLBERMANN: John DeVore of "Maxim" magazine, thank you for your time tonight, sir.

DEVORE: Thank you, Keith.

OLBERMANN: A final reminder. Next week, when the Republicans go to New York, we will, too, COUNTDOWN to the convention, 5:00 p.m. Eastern, 2:00 Pacific, next week here on MSNBC. Be there. Aloha.

That's COUNTDOWN. Thanks for being part of it. I'm Keith Olbermann.

Good night and good luck.

_END _


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KEITH OLBERMANN, HOST: Which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow? The president says stop all the soft money ads, including the Swift Boat ads. Going on the air in three states today, new Swift Boat ads.

Going on the screen in a gala premium here tonight, 14 new anti-Bush ads. This all seems to be quieting down, huh?

John Kerry goes one on one with the host of the newscast chosen the best by the TV Critics Association, Jon Stewart. Politics are funny.

And the Abu Ghraib investigation. It confirmed sadism, it continues to track upward but it will not require the sworn poetic testimony of Donald Rumsfeld.

And thou art weighed in the balance and found to be an elephant. This is not a 527 ad. It's a gimmick at the Louisville Zoo. And the elephant is thinking, I know I'm pleasingly plump, do we need to do this in public?


All that and more now on COUNTDOWN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Good evening. This is Tuesday, August 24. Seventy days until the 2004 presidential election. Yesterday George W. Bush told the nation, his supporters and detractors alike, that the advertisements by the organization Swift Boat Veterans For Truth should be discontinued along with all the other advertisements by the soft money so-called 527 groups.

Today the Swift Boat Vets' new ad premiered on television stations in three states meaning they either did not hear the president or they did not listen to him.

Our fifth story in the countdown, the issues be dammed, the truth be secondary. American politics continuing to tell the American voter, you can kiss my ads. If not for cable news networks like this one, it is unlikely many Americans would even see the new advertisement airing today in just four cities in just three states: Albuquerque and Harrisburg and Las Vegas and Reno, three of the places where it is thought this election will be decided. The one-minute ad highlighting Lieutenant Kerry's anti-war testimony before Congress after he came home from Vietnam. Here now, some of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kerry gave the enemy for free what I and many of my comrades in north Vietnam in the prison camps took torture to avoid saying. It demoralizes...

AD ANNOUNCER: Crimes committed on the day-to-day basis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He betrayed us in the past, how could we be loyal to him now?

AD ANNOUNCER: Ravaged the countryside in south Vietnam.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He dishonored his country and more importantly, the people he served with. He just sold them out.

AD ANNOUNCER: Swift Boat Veterans For Truth is responsible for the content of this advertisement.


(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: And since no Swift Boat ad or Swift Boat ad story would be complete without some recanting of some kind, we take you now to the Swift Boat Veterans website which claims of all the officers who served with Lieutenant Kerry, only one of them supports him now in his bid for presidency. That was news to two more Veterans in the photo, Rich McCann (ph) and Rich Baker (ph). They say they support Kerry after all.

The website lists them as neutral but McCann says he was never neutral about John Kerry only neutral about whether or not the Swift Boat Veterans should use his picture. He told "USA Today," quote, "if the question is whether John Kerry is fit to be commander in, my answer is absolutely."

Suffice to say that sometime this afternoon after Mr. McCann's comments hit the newspapers, the graphic on the Swift Boat website was updated. Funny how that happens. The Swift Boat Vets have prioritized extending their 20 days of fame well ahead of listening to their own president's admonitions about keeping this fight going. The 527 group from the left of center might best be described as having listened to Mr. Bush while sticking their fingers in their ears and singing the, "I feel like I'm fixing to die" rag by Country Joe and the Fish as loudly as they can.

Moveon.org tonight premiering in New York 14 new anti-Bush commercials featuring everybody from Howard Dean to Rebecca Romijn, from Margaret Cho to Janeane Garofalo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey. Are you a Republican?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get in. Must be hard not having a candidate for president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, Republicans would never create the largest budget deficits in history or take away personal civil liberties like privacy or due process of law and they would never send troops into war without checking all the facts. I mean, they are the party that runs things like a business, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)


OLBERMANN: Like this country and the Soviet Union in the sixties and seventies, the 527 ad arms race continues to spiral upwards. The "Wall Street Journal" reporting that a group of well connected Republicans is now starting something called The November Fund to produce ads attacking John Edwards. "It's our legal right," says group co-chair Craig Fuller speaking of the president's comments. Fuller was chief of staff to Vice President George H.W. Bush. He says the 527 horse, quote, "left the barn, left the corral, and left the ranch months ago."

The Democrats have spent over $100 million on 527s, he adds. The figure given by the Bush campaign itself on Sunday was $63 million.

One's dreams are haunted by what television will look like on October 20 of this year. The occasional commercial for the upcoming new film "Surviving Christmas" with Ben Affleck and James Gandolfini swimming hopelessly in election ad after election ad after election ad. Can anything be done to avert the catastrophe that could consume America's collective brain? Joining me now, Derek Willis of the Center for Public Integrity, a non-profit, non-partisan think-thank that investigates public policy issues like this one.

Mr. Willis, good evening.

The head of a new pro-Bush 527 group basically tells Mr. Bush to kiss off, we're going to go do it anyway. On the surface that sure looks like a literal fulfillment of the law that requires that there be no coordination between a formal campaign and a 527 but does it also mean that the 527 groups are the thing that ate the campaign? Are they unstoppable?

DEREK WILLIS, CENTER FOR PUBLIC INTEGRITY: I don't know that they're unstoppable but what they are is you can't really shut them off entirely. You could perhaps shame some of them or as Republicans have tried to do with some of Moveon's ads and as Democrats have tried to do, sort of shout down the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth ads. But they are not particularly stoppable in terms of constitutional law because there is that first amendment issue they have to deal with before they get to shutting these type of groups down.

OLBERMANN: The Republican groups have answered every criticism about the Swift Boat ads with some sort of statement like that of Mr. Fuller which I just read of this new John Edwards - or anti-John Edwards group. Well, the Democrats have spent $100 million on the same kind of ads. Is that an honest answer in your investigation and in your interpretations either in scope or in tone or is it something of a red herring?

WILLIS: The Democratic groups have spent more than $100 million but it hasn't gone all gone to advertising and in fact a good chunk of it has gone to voter registration and turnout which arguably is as important as television advertising and less viewable for the American public. It doesn't really interrupt their nightly television viewing.

OLBERMANN: The Moveon.org ads though, the ones being premiered tonight as this one here we're seeing which is one about the dismantling as they put it of the clean air regulations by the Bush administration. These are really slick. They make the Swift Boat ads, in terms of production value, we're not talking about truth or anything else, but in terms of production value they look like medium quality documentaries, while these look like, as you're just seeing in this stuff, 30-second, big budget Hollywood films. Is this - that's actually the apex of this process or are we going further from here either in expenditures or in outlandishness?

WILLIS: I don't think there is any doubt that we will probably go further in expenditures and almost certainly in outlandishness and production quality. But it's also worth noting that you don't have to have a very high production quality in order to get your message across effectively. I think the 1988 Willie Horton ads with grainy images and stark images really showed us that you cannot have great production values and still get a meaningful message across effectively to voters.

But I think the sort of the gold standard was the "Man From Hope" video in 1992 and I think that is sort of what a lot of these liberal groups are sort of shooting for, to repeat that kind of atmosphere and that takes Hollywood production value so I don't see that sort of thing going away anytime soon.

OLBERMANN: And if you make them 14 at a time, you might get lucky. Derek Willis of the Center for Public Integrity. We appreciate your insight and your time.


WILLIS: Thanks for having me.

OLBERMANN: In addition to the overall charge that 527s are eating through the woodframe of the democracy, there remains the interior question about those Swift Boat ads. Do they survive the smell test? So far they've provoked the resignation of one member of the Veterans for Bush, Kerry's steering committee recanted statements by at least one of the guys in the ads. An angry protest by now four Swift Boat Veterans who claim the group used their images and lied about their opinions without their permission. Now our chief investigative correspondent Lisa Myers tries to fact check the commercials themselves.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-five years ago, John Kerry saved my life.

LISA MYERS, MSNBC INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former Green Beret Jim Rassmann says on March 13, 1969, an injured John Kerry plucked him from the river in the face of enemy fire for which Kerry was awarded a Bronze Star and a third Purple Heart.

35 years later, this man, former Swift Boat Lieutenant Larry Thurlow is leading the charge to discredit this key chapter of Kerry's story, claiming there was no enemy fire and that Kerry exaggerated his injuries.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He lied to manufacture that third Purple Heart. The plan was to use his Vietnam experience and use that as a platform into basically a career in politics.

MYERS: Here is what everyone agrees on. Five swiftboats come to a series of poles and fishing nets stretched across the river. Three boats go around to the left and two including Kerry's go right. A mine explodes under the lead boat on the left badly injuring the crew. Kerry's boat races through on the right. In the ensuing chaos, Rassmann falls into the river and Kerry pulls him out. Kerry was honored to great personal courage under fire, but Thurlow, two swiftboat skippers and an enlisted man are now saying there was no enemy fire.

THURLOW: We took no enemy fire from either bank. There not one manned wounded. There's not one bullet hole that day in any boat.

MYERS: This battle damage report from Kerry's boat does not show any bullet holes. But this one from another boat does, three .30 caliber bullet holes. Thurlow, claims that damage was from a sniper the day before.

(on camera): What's more, Thurlow, also received a bronze star for heroism that day. And his own citation reportedly refers to "Enemy bullets flying about him."

If this is false, why did you accept the bronze star and will you now return it?


THURLOW: I knew it was false, but nobody else was going see it. I accepted it, because I felt at the time I had been given the thing because I saved the wounded on the boat and saved the boat.

MYERS: Thurlow, says that if being under enemy fire is required to earn the medal, he will give it back. Rassmann, Kerry's crew and an enlisted man on another boat insists Kerry was under significant enemy fire.

RASSMANN: He put his life on the line by coming out of that pilot and coming up and pulling me onto the deck. There was fire there. He thought he was going to get killed, I was amazed he didn't get killed.

MYERS: For you to be right, all available military documentation would have to be wrong, and all those vets supporting Kerry would have to be mistaken or lying.

THURLOW: Yes, they would.

MYERS (voice-over): There also are inconsistencies in Kerry's version of the events. His medal citation says his arm was bleeding and in pain, but a Doctor's report refers only to a contusion or bruise.

Thurlow, a Republican, acknowledges his memory may be colored over Kerry's subsequent public opposition to the war. A war still being waged today.

Lisa Myers, NBC News, Kansas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Continuing the fifth story, the first lady and the women who would be first lady, both in the news, both in unflattering light.

The newspaper in Tucson, "The Arizona Daily Star," probably made a mistake in granting Elizabeth Edwards request that she get to pick who would interview her for that newspaper. But she helped. John Edwards wife, asked that women reporter be assigned to do the feature on her, and the paper consented. But then Mrs. Edwards staff asked for Cathalena E. Burch and the paper said no way. Ms. Birch is "The Daily Star's" music critic. The newspaper says it regrets giving Mrs. Edwards input into the identity of her interviewer.

What if anything Laura Bush did at a gala in Cincinnati last night remains unconfirmed, but "The New York Post" reporting that the first lady refused to appear on the same stage as hip hop star, Sean "P. Diddy" Combs. Each was to be on hand for dedication of the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center, along side Angela Bassett, the actress, Bono from U2 and other politicians.


But according to "The Post," Mrs. Bush's people quote "Made it very clear to Freedom Center that they would not have Laura Bush appearing in the same photo op as P. Diddy." She made it to the event, he did not, leading credence to this report. Combs, himself then pulled out of the event telling organizers he had a, "Unexpected personal obligation."

Quite a surprise for Mrs. Bush's husband, if anybody would have read one of the news magazine to him, there would have been an item in there, that he would have learned about, that the man who is to introduce him at the Republican Convention a week from Thursday is reportedly making preparations to run for the presidency himself in 2008.

"Newsweek," reporting that the governor's convention scheduled, George Pataki's schedule next week reads suspiciously, aspirational. He will be the featured guest at the raiser for the New Hampshire Republican Party on Monday. New Hampshire, where the first primary is just three years and five months away. The magazine also reports, the strategy meeting, with key advisors, to discussing a possible Pataki White House run, four years hence.

His aides and advisor tried to defuse the issue today, calling it, just the political rumor mill at work. You speak as if the political rumor mill were a bad thing. Without it our special shows from the Republican Convention next we would be almost impossible.

COUNTDOWN to the convention, weekday afternoons at 5:00 p.m. Eastern, 2:00 p.m. Pacific. All the day's political news, it's non-political news and the political non-news, live at 5:00. Be there, aloha.

This edition of COUNTDOWN opening up with politics, specificly the growing barrage of 527 ads.

Up next, the Nader affect. Right now Florida is a tie without him.

Come election day, will Florida be without him?

And later, John Kerry has completed his first major interview since the swiftboat controversy surfaced. It will air on Comedy Central. What does that say about the state of decision 2004.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Tonight's No. 4 story is next. Without him, Florida is a statical dead heat in the damp heat. Will Florida be without him come election day. Ralph Nader, his story, the latest on him, next on COUNTDOWN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)


OLBERMANN: In the coil and recoil over the swiftboats in the choppy seas between the two political conventions, two important words about the 2004 election have not within spoken much recently, Ralph, Nader.

Our fourth story in the COUNTDOWN, if his performance spoiling Florida and perhaps the 2000 election for Al Gore, had not be achievement enough, the independent presidential candidate has been singled out in the subject of an attack ad of his known. Recoiling at the thought of what they see as another spoiler in the maker, liberal activist group, "The Nader Factor," led by former campaign workers for Wesley Clark, Howard Dean and Dick Gephardt has taken to the airwaves.

A 60 second commercial that began running in Wisconsin and New Mexico today. And the group charges Republican groups have assisted Nader efforts to get on the ballot in key battleground states, because "The right wing believes that helping Ralph Nader helps George Bush." He certainly seems to be doing so in Florida, again.

So far, Nader, has met the qualifications to be on the ballots of only 11 states, but one of those is the sunshine where he will be included as the Reform Party Candidate. A "USA TODAY"/Gallop poll released today, shows the Democratic challenger in razor thin race for Florida.

Among likely voters, the president leads the senator 48 to 46 percent; the other 2 percent to Nader. With no Nader in the poll picture, it is a dead heat. Florida's electoral votes would then go to Mr. Margin of Error.

Nader was on 43 state ballots four years ago. Florida is a yes, but he didn't make it in Missouri, South Carolina, Texas, eight others. He faces petition challenges in many more. And a spokesman's hope today that he will be on a, quote, "vast majority" of vast ballots seems optimistic. And the rumors continue of his own supporters desperately pleading with him to drop out and endorse John Kerry.

To take the Nader temperature, I'm joined again by "The Wall Street Journal's" national political editor, John Harwood. John, good evening.

JOHN HARWOOD, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Hi, Keith.

OLBERMANN: Previously on this newscast, we have psychoanalyzed why he might be running, but what about how long he can keep running? Is there a point at which the money dries up and it's not a question of snipe ads or pleadings, but just practicality?

HARWOOD: Well, as long as he has got enough money for a plane ticket, he will get some attention in some places. The question is how many people are going to get a chance to vote for him? The market is smaller for Ralph Nader this year. That means he has got less ground troops, less people willing to give him money, although he has picked up some support from Republicans, which he is happy to accept even though Democrats are protesting.

But I think Ralph Nader is going to stay at this as long as he can, see how many ballots he can get on and try to make his point.

OLBERMANN: In that one shot there, he seemed to be low on graffiti (sic). It looked there were about six pieces of paper flying by his head as he celebrated.


If he discontinued, voluntarily and involuntarily, what happens to his name on the ballots in the states he's already in? Specifically we're talking about Florida. Does it stay there anyway? Could he still impact a swing state, sort of postmortem, after the death of his campaign?

HARWOOD: Often times you can, Keith, because the process of printing ballots is moving forward, and one of the interesting things about this election is voters are going to actually start voting in just a few weeks, because so many states have gone to these easy absentee voting procedures. Some states are going to start voting in mid-September. In Florida, it's mid-October, and at that point ballots will have been printed, a lot of people will have votes in their hands and they will be able to vote for Ralph Nader, assuming that nothing has impeded his qualifications between now and then.

OLBERMANN: Who knows what the anti-Nader that we're talking about would do the audience that sees them? What will he think of them? Will they just serve to reinforce his sense of being on a mission from something?

HARWOOD: All the evidence so far suggests, Keith, this is just firming up his desire to stay in the race and try to make his point. He gets very indignant about Democrats and other liberals coming after him. There is a lot of them. He is getting a lot of flak from his own base, people who supported him last time, people who have been historically with him. And you see in these "Nader Factor" ads, they are interesting attack ads. They're not all that negative toward Nader, but they talk about the impact that he is going to have, and they are running them now, while Nader volunteers are trying to collect petitions. In some of these states, where they are trying to go to shopping malls and places to get support, they are trying to cut off his oxygen before he can get on the ballot.

OLBERMANN: John Harwood, the national political editor of "The Wall Street Journal." As always, sir, we appreciate your perspective and especially your time.

HARWOOD: My pleasure.

OLBERMANN: Later tonight on COUNTDOWN, why John Kerry gave his first big one-on-one post convention interview to Jon Stewart.

First, from being on the ballot in Florida to not getting a ballot in Florida. An investigation by the newspaper "The New York Daily News" found 46,000 New Yorkers are registered to vote in both New York State and Florida. And now both states are clamping down on them. A study of computer records found as many as 1,000 people who voted twice in at least one election, some in as many as seven. One case has been referred to Florida state's attorney general for criminal prosecution. Please leave the chads to the natives.

Numbers five and four completed. We will pause the COUNTDOWN in a moment for a nightly dose of "Oddball." Pamplona may long be over, but fear not, the bulls are running on this continent now. It's like a rock concert tour. Although they don't seem to be running too much.

And later, a 7-year-old hero. He holds it together in a moment of crisis. He saves his grandfather's life with a call to 911. And we'll listen to it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: We're back, and we take leave from the news of political wars and partisan bickering, and enter the segment full of the neat video and oh those cute little animals with 23 toes. Let's play "Oddball."


And why fly all the way to Spain for the running of the bulls when you can get the cheap Mexican knockoff right here on this continent? They have actually been running their imitation event annually for 50 years in La Montla (ph), but that does not mean they have got the whole process down just yet. It's the running part that seems to escape them.

Here, the bulls seem to be milling around in the crowd, just looking for somebody to gore, perhaps pick a pocket or pester. Of course, as in Pamplona, our four-legged friends meet the same horrible fate in the bull ring at the end of the run. That's why we're always rooting for the bulls to take a few people down with them. The organizers say they were no serious injuries to humans this year, although you might get a second opinion from that guy.

To Sturetsville (ph), Minnesota where over the last decade or so a lot of strange things have crawled out of that local pond. So when two girls found a frog with five legs, that barely raised an eyebrow. But there was something different about this five-legged frog. Something horrifying. It is 23 toes. Twenty-three toes!

Experts who know nothing about the top secret experimenters being conducted by the pedicure industry say the cause could be environmental or perhaps evolutional, or it might just be a resurgence in breeding attempts by the French National Association of Frog Leg Development.

Finally, to the Louisville zoo, where it's time to give the elephants their annual physicals. I feel like Kent Brockman.

They put it off for long enough, but every pachyderm knows the key to long-term health is exercise and regular checkups. Got to keep the weight down. Portable scales, used usually to weight tractor trailer trucks, were brought in for Dumbo and company. Mickey, the African elephant, checked in at 7,750 pounds; Paunch the Asian at 10,660, and Chuckles the Clown is no longer with us.

"Oddball" now belongs to the ages. Up next, tonight's No. 3 story:

The abuses at Abu Ghraib. One official calls it "animal house on the night shift." But the blame is clearly also going to members of the faculty.

And later, one Russian passenger aircraft crashes, another, same model, same airport, at the same time disappears. Could it be something other than terrorism? These stories ahead. First, here are COUNTDOWN's top three newsmakers of this day.

No. 3, Roy Ritenaur of Summerduck, Virginia. He was hit by lightning last week. That would be number six to Roy in just 35 years. He's one bolt short of Park Ranger Ray Sullivan's state record of seven. Good luck to you, Roy!

No. 2, Air Canada. The national airline almost lost the national treasure. Hockey's Stanley Cup trophy was bumped from a flight from Vancouver Sunday because the plane was too heavy. It was left overnight in a storage room. The cup has seen worse. It has been left on a Montreal street, put on display in a bowling alley and was once drop-kicked into Ottawa's Rideau Canal.

And, No. 1, Allyssa and Grant Kuseske. A year ago next Monday, Allyssa gave birth to twins. Last Thursday, she gave birth to two more twins. The Kuseskes live in St. Paul, which is one of Minnesota's twin cities.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: It was May 8, 2002. One passenger flight crashed off the coast of China, a second in the same day in Tunisia. That coincidence was extraordinary enough. And the timing, three days short of eight months after 9/11, still made it suspicious.

Our third story on the COUNTDOWN, terror and its presumption. Two jets of the same make and model took off from the same Russian airport on the same day. One is confirmed down and the other declared missing at almost the same time. Officials have now verified the crash of the first jet, about 125 miles south of Moscow, 42 people on bored. No survivors expected.

At about the same time, a second jet with another 46 on board vanished from radar screens about 600 miles south of Moscow. Both planes were Tupolev Tu-154 jets, a standard airliner on domestic flights in Russia. Officials are not ruling out terrorism. They have increased security at all Russian airports, but there have been no groundings reported.

There are now also reports that witnesses saw an explosion before the crash of the first aircraft. And the Interfax news agency say emergency workers spotted a fire in the region where the second aircraft vanished.

Terrorism expert MSNBC analyst Steve Emerson joins me now.

Steve, good evening.

STEVE EMERSON, NBC TERRORISM ANALYST: Good evening, Keith.

OLBERMANN: Same airport, same kind of planes, same day, same disappearance time. Are the odds not too overwhelming for this not to have been deliberate, whether it's terrorism, per se, or just sabotage of some sort?

EMERSON: No, I think you pointed out well that it could have been sabotage or terrorism. The odds of it being a spontaneous malfunction are just too great. It is always possible, but the bottom line here is that it could have been sabotage or terrorism. Investigators really don't know at this point.

OLBERMANN: Are they not, though, some of the least reliable planes? Is there not a factor which doesn't necessarily preclude terrorism? It might just be an easier target. But these are not Boeings out there.

EMERSON: I was speaking to an airplane - aviation specialist about an hour ago. And he said that this has high rate of malfunctions and certain a higher rate of disasters than other airplanes. Clearly, the fact is that they don't know at this point, as you pointed out. The coincidences are bizarre when we think about a simultaneous explosion of both planes.


OLBERMANN: If you think Russia, you think Chechen terrorists. And if you think Chechen terrorists and you think of the Russian security agency, the FSB, tonight, President Putin has ordered that the FSB investigate these two incidents.

Moscow theater atrocity, the subway bombing earlier this year. Would this be within that pattern of what the Chechen have shown their terrorist acts have shown their terrorist acts being, just kill as many people as possible and make a statement later?

EMERSON: And find vulnerabilities in the system.

Clearly, they don't even follow any pattern. They are always inventing and pushing the envelope of terrorism to the point of carrying out rock concert suicide bombings, as you pointed out, the Moscow theater episode. And so clearly right now, that is on the table. Of course, there could have been organized crime motivation here, because there is a lot of that type of sabotage and killings going on in Russia.

OLBERMANN: Map out for me lastly what the first stages of the investigation would be in Russia if there is no claim of responsibility for this. How would you go about proving that this was terror?

EMERSON: Even if there is a claim, the Chechens might - and even if they didn't take it out, do it, they might claim responsibility as an opportunistic thing. But, clearly, there are flight recorders. There's the pinning of the fragmentation. There's the issue of whether in fact the passenger manifest had been reconciled with the baggage.

So there are all these telltale signs. And I think they will be able to determine within 24 to 48 hours whether in fact it was terrorism or just sabotage done by some disgruntled organized crime motivated factor.

OLBERMANN: Or the most extraordinary set of air disasters in aviation history, I guess.

MSNBC's terrorism expert, Steve Emerson - thanks for coming in, Steve.

EMERSON: Sure.

OLBERMANN: On the other end of the terrorism stick, the U.S. military continues to investigate what went wrong in the treatment and interrogation of terror suspects in Iraq.

Since the emergence of the graphic details of prison abuse at the Abu Ghraib, the focus has been on two explanations, rogue soldiers at the prison level or misguided leadership, two explanations, now two investigations. Mannheim, Germany, a military judge presiding over the trial of seven Army reservists charged in the abuse scandal ruled out what would have been a headline-making witness. Judge James Pohl rejected a defense attorney's request to force Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to submit to an interview about what he knew about the treatment of prisoners.


Pohl stated the request for an interview could be raised again if the defense can show a Rumsfeld connection to the case.

And, last night, our correspondent Fred Francis reported from Mannheim exclusive details about a searing Pentagon inquiry into how far up the chain of command responsibility goes. Today, the full scope of that investigation, led by the former Defense Secretary James Schlesinger, became public.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRED FRANCIS, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The panel said there was chaos at the prison, severe understaffing and failures of leadership at every level, allowing sadism among a small group of G.I.s.

JAMES SCHLESINGER, CHAIRMAN OF ABU GHRAIB INVESTIGATIVE PANEL: Sadism that was certainly not organized. It was a kind of animal house on the night shift.

FRANCIS: Schlesinger and the others on the panel said the actions of some M.P.s did not result from a policy of torture and abuse, but from serious gaps and confusion in lines of command.

TILLIE FOWLER, ABU GHRAIB PANEL MEMBER: It was shocking to find that during the time the worst abuses that were occurring, it was not clear who if anyone was really in charge at Abu Ghraib.

FRANCIS: Today, Schlesinger was only mildly critical of the secretary of defense, saying his office was only indirectly to blame.

There was harsher criticism for his top generals. And the panel directed its toughest words for the senior officers at Abu Ghraib, saying they should have known what was going on.

(on camera): The news from Washington was good for some of the accused M.P.s who had pretrial hearings here in Germany, giving credence to their defense that they did not act alone, that now in an official report some of their senior officers share some of the blame.

The lawyer for Sergeant Ivan Frederick, who agreed to plead guilty to some charges this week, thinks the numbers of accused will grow.

GARY MYERS, ATTORNEY FOR IVAN FREDERICK: After today, we will no longer hear that it was just seven rogue soldiers. After today, the second line of defense from the government seems to be now that it was just 28 rogue soldiers.


FRANCIS (voice-over): Sergeant Frederick said the guilty plea will end a nightmare that began when he was assigned to the prison.

IVAN FREDERICK, CHARGED IN ABU GHRAIB SCANDAL: Everything just went down hill since we got to Abu Ghraib in October, that the whole mission just turned upside down.

FRANCIS: Upside down for the Pentagon, too, and no end is near. In the military court here today, Army prosecutors said for the first time that officers may be charged.

Fred Francis, NBC News, Mannheim, Germany.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Back in Iraq itself, despite another apparent cease-fire agreement, despite the release of an American hostage, nothing is yet settled in Najaf.

For the third night in a row, strong explosions rocked that city, bombings conducted by U.S. aircraft intended to tighten the ring around insurgents loyal to the Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. The Iraq government's troops have now closed to within 200 yards, as close as they have gotten yet of the Imam Ali shrine, where al-Sadr and his supporters remain.

Iraqi's defense minister says the insurgents have only hours to surrender or they will face a violent raid.

Two stories left on COUNTDOWN. Up next, little boy, big hero, how a 7-year-old kid managed to save his grandfather's life. Then later, a heavenly new job for Ellen DeGeneres, reprising a classic George Burns' role.

But, first, here are COUNTDOWN's top three sound bites of this day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARTURO SANTIAGO: And take a look down this street here. This - this has been closed down - whoa. OK, we almost got hit by an automobile here. Sorry about that, folks. Caution tape almost took our light out and my head off. Let's try to help her out here a little bit here. This is an elderly woman.


LAURA MCPHERSON, REPORTER: The chase finally ended when the car came to a stop right up there on the Franklin Road overpass. Some driver tells us that he had a perfectly good explanation for not wanting to stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just told you because I'm drunk and I ain't got a license.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: General Myers, the vice president, and Condi and I just had a long-ranging discussion with our key members of the defense team about a variety of subjects. We talked about Iraq. We're making progress on the ground. We were briefed not...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Still ahead on COUNTDOWN, a child's heroism at a time of crisis, the call to 911 that saved his grandfather's life. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: What was life like for you at the age of 7? Tom Sawyer's summers, a world where everything was silly and life consisted of a series of cascading snickers. Did you have fun? Did you ever save somebody's life?

Our second story on the COUNTDOWN tonight, 7 years old and when crisis came, he knew exactly what to do.

Our correspondent is Cheryl Preheim of our station in Denver, KUSA.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good catch.


CHERYL PREHEIM, KUSA REPORTER (voice-over): Seven-year-old Trystan Meadows (ph) and his grandpa are bed buds.

TRYSTAN: We do a lot of stuff with each other.

PREHEIM: They will have many more special times like this.

TRYSTAN: Let's try it again, grandpa.

PREHEIM: He Trystan knew just what to do when his grandpa collapsed.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TRYSTAN: Hello, my grandpa, he fell and now he can't talk. I need help immediately.

SHENIKWA TIGNER, DISPATCHER: OK. how old are you, honey?

TRYSTAN: Seven.

TIGNER: You're 7. OK.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TRYSTAN: He was doing weird movements.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Having a seizure. I guess my arms were flailing, my legs.

TRYSTAN: The lady on the phone told me what to do.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TIGNER: I want to go lay your ear next to his nose and listen for him to breath and his chest.

TRYSTAN: OK, he's breathing because I think he's snoring.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PREHEIM: Shenikwa Tigner was the dispatcher that day.

TIGNER: We deal with people at the worse moments of their lives and this kid held it together the whole way. So he did awesome.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TIGNER: Push his forehead back until his chin tilts up.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was amazing that a 7-year-old had that much presence.


TRYSTAN: I was scared.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TIGNER: You need to stay right there with him.

TRYSTAN: This is so, so scary.

TIGNER: OK, you are doing really good, sweetie, OK?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PREHEIM: The ambulance came within five minutes.

LT. BILL BRANDT, AURORA FIRE DEPARTMENT: Oh, it was a very serious call. Yes, he was completely unconscious and unresponsive when we got there.

PREHEIM: Aurora Fire paramedics say the fast call to 911 saved grandpa Meadows his life. Now Trystan is an honorary junior EMT.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am so proud of my little boy.

PREHEIM: And a hero in his grandpa's eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm so glad he was there.


(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Cheryl Preheim of KUSA in Denver reporting there.

Time to make the nightly segue from the top five stories to the top fame stories, the segment we like to call "Keeping Tabs."

And the most eagerly anticipated witness, if not the most important one, in the Scott Peterson murder case can go home now. Under cross-examination, Amber Frey maintained her composure today, replying to Mark Geragos's questions calmly, telling the court that Peterson had never asked her not to go to the police, that he was never violent with her, that he never actually said he loved her.

She never even looked at him as she spoke. Geragos even played one of Ms. Frey's recorded conversations in which she asks Scott Peterson about his wife's disappearance, saying - quote - "I assume that she is missing because you love me, right?" To which Peterson replied, "Amber, she is missing because someone abducted her."

More traditional tabs, another Hollywood movie remake, but this one has as big a twist as you might be able to imagine. God is not merely a woman. She is a lesbian and for that matter she is a lesbian talk show host. I knew it. Warner Brothers casting Ellen DeGeneres to star in the remake of the 1977 comedy "Oh, God." The producer of the new film produced the original two in which the deity was played by George Burns, not exactly the same kind of character.

Fortunately, nobody has nominated Russell Crowe. A British tabloid

says the intense Australian actor has pulled a Mike Tyson and bit the ear

of a friend and bodyguard named Spud. London's "Sunday Mirror" reports

that Crowe was in Toronto filming ironically enough a boxing picture and

out having a few beers with his bodyguard Spud Carroll, when Carroll

suggested it was time for Crowe to go home to the wife and kid. Crowe then


· quote - "flipped," according to a supposed witness, and bit his friend.

And it's not truly fair to his friends or family, but the line is irresistible and it has already been nationwide and locally. The man who coined the term "Elvis has left the building" has left the building. Al Dvorin was not the first arena announcer to actually use the phrase in hopes of clearing out hangers-around after Elvis Presley concerts, but he was the most famous and he used it for years and years. Dvorin died in a traffic accident just days after his last performance at a concert and panel discussion by the Elvis impersonator Paul Casey in California over the weekend. Al Dvorin was 81 years old.

Still ahead of us here on COUNTDOWN, you will see why one of these men is giving his first one-on-one interview in weeks to a guy who was once the host of the TV series "Short Attention Span Theater."

Stand by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Every day on this newscast, we walk a fine line, trying to balance the required effort at responsible journalism with the option to frequently focus on the less serious issues - oh, a kitty.

(LAUGHTER)

OLBERMANN: Nobody here thinks we're reshaping the world. It just is beginning to look more and more like our cockeyed view of it.

The No. 1 story on the COUNTDOWN tonight, for his first national one-on-one interview in weeks, Democratic candidate John Kerry selected a man whose previous journalistic credentials include hosting the Comedy Channel's "Short Attention Span Theater," a cameo in a Steve Martin movie and his role listed 40th in the credits in the pot-smoking genre film classic "Half-Baked," Jon Stewart of Comedy Central's "The Daily Show."

Not to question his intelligence, nor the biting wit of his program - and my 25 years in broadcasting basically divvy up into 20 years of sports and five of news - but today's sit-down, at-length interview with Kerry seemed to signal a sea change in the relationship between satirical television pseudo-news and the real world of contemporary politics.

Responding to a question abortion swift boat ads, the senator said - quote - "It is disappointing, because I think most Americans would like to have a much more intelligent conversation about where the country is going." But he also told Stewart, "Believe it or not, I've been through worse."

Political satirist John DeVore is now an associate editor with "Maxim" magazine. He was the lead writer for "The Daily Show" and "Indecision 2000" Web sites.


Mr. DeVore, good evening.

JOHN DEVORE, "MAXIM": How you doing, Keith? What's up?

OLBERMANN: Is this phenomenon purely a party thing? Could you ever see George Bush doing a one-on-one with Jon Stewart or is this John Kerry going where his potential voters are?

DEVORE: Well, you know, first of all, I don't think it's an alliance between comedy and politics. I think politicians are using the satire platform to get their message out, Keith.

OLBERMANN: And yet much of the destruction of the fire wall, if you will, between those - thou shalt not go where humor or entertainment is used was in some way enabled by Rush Limbaugh, wasn't it? Didn't this sort of erasure start with the conservatives?

DEVORE: Oh, sure.

Limbaugh for years, fruitcake that he is, used - told people that he was an entertainer, that he made jokes, that he wasn't this fanatical like right-wing comedian - or, rather, ideologue, but he always kind of hid behind the veneer of comedy. And a lot of - like Air America is another liberal example of that.

OLBERMANN: Was Jon Stewart's show in particular and in fact the whole concept of mixing news and satire authenticated earlier this year when Ted Koppel said - let me get the quote exactly right - "A lot of television viewers, more quite frankly than I'm comfortable with, get their news from a program called 'The Daily Show'"?

With a statement like that, was he saying to people who watch "The Daily Show" or perhaps some of the spillover that watches this one, you're going to sit there and be bored and you're going to watch us whether you like us or not?

DEVORE: You know, it made me feel sorry actually for Ted when I saw him make that statement. I wanted to give him a hug. That was more of a message from another era of the three network era kind of being upset that people are finding new platforms in which to get their political information.

It just kind of made me sad, actually, that that happened,really. I mean, Ted is behind the times.

OLBERMANN: Can this get - can this go further? Is there something that's going to wind up where a presidential candidate is interviewed by "Space Ghost Coast to Coast" or something?


(LAUGHTER)

DEVORE: I don't know. It's weird, this election cycle. It's like the marriage between Milton Berle and Lee Atwater, this use of humor as a facade for political agenda.

I think - it's like Bill Clinton used Arsenio Hall's show playing saxophone to great effect. So I don't really think there's anything strange about this combination of like entertainment and politics.

OLBERMANN: Well, it was - it certainly is not as strange as that sight we just saw there of the motorcycle ride of John Kerry onto the "Jay Leno" set. And, by the way, thank you for passing the information on. I didn't know that Lee Atwater and Milton Berle actually had gotten married.

DEVORE: They had a love child, actually.

OLBERMANN: John DeVore of "Maxim" magazine, thank you for your time tonight, sir.

DEVORE: Thank you, Keith.

OLBERMANN: A final reminder. Next week, when the Republicans go to New York, we will, too, COUNTDOWN to the convention, 5:00 p.m. Eastern, 2:00 Pacific, next week here on MSNBC. Be there. Aloha.

That's COUNTDOWN. Thanks for being part of it. I'm Keith Olbermann.

Good night and good luck.

_END _


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KEITH OLBERMANN, HOST: Which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow? The president says stop all the soft money ads, including the Swift Boat ads. Going on the air in three states today, new Swift Boat ads.

Going on the screen in a gala premium here tonight, 14 new anti-Bush ads. This all seems to be quieting down, huh?

John Kerry goes one on one with the host of the newscast chosen the best by the TV Critics Association, Jon Stewart. Politics are funny.

And the Abu Ghraib investigation. It confirmed sadism, it continues to track upward but it will not require the sworn poetic testimony of Donald Rumsfeld.

And thou art weighed in the balance and found to be an elephant. This is not a 527 ad. It's a gimmick at the Louisville Zoo. And the elephant is thinking, I know I'm pleasingly plump, do we need to do this in public?


All that and more now on COUNTDOWN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Good evening. This is Tuesday, August 24. Seventy days until the 2004 presidential election. Yesterday George W. Bush told the nation, his supporters and detractors alike, that the advertisements by the organization Swift Boat Veterans For Truth should be discontinued along with all the other advertisements by the soft money so-called 527 groups.

Today the Swift Boat Vets' new ad premiered on television stations in three states meaning they either did not hear the president or they did not listen to him.

Our fifth story in the countdown, the issues be dammed, the truth be secondary. American politics continuing to tell the American voter, you can kiss my ads. If not for cable news networks like this one, it is unlikely many Americans would even see the new advertisement airing today in just four cities in just three states: Albuquerque and Harrisburg and Las Vegas and Reno, three of the places where it is thought this election will be decided. The one-minute ad highlighting Lieutenant Kerry's anti-war testimony before Congress after he came home from Vietnam. Here now, some of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kerry gave the enemy for free what I and many of my comrades in north Vietnam in the prison camps took torture to avoid saying. It demoralizes...

AD ANNOUNCER: Crimes committed on the day-to-day basis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He betrayed us in the past, how could we be loyal to him now?

AD ANNOUNCER: Ravaged the countryside in south Vietnam.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He dishonored his country and more importantly, the people he served with. He just sold them out.

AD ANNOUNCER: Swift Boat Veterans For Truth is responsible for the content of this advertisement.


(END VIDEO CLIP)

OLBERMANN: And since no Swift Boat ad or Swift Boat ad story would be complete without some recanting of some kind, we take you now to the Swift Boat Veterans website which claims of all the officers who served with Lieutenant Kerry, only one of them supports him now in his bid for presidency. That was news to two more Veterans in the photo, Rich McCann (ph) and Rich Baker (ph). They say they support Kerry after all.

The website lists them as neutral but McCann says he was never neutral about John Kerry only neutral about whether or not the Swift Boat Veterans should use his picture. He told "USA Today," quote, "if the question is whether John Kerry is fit to be commander in, my answer is absolutely."

Suffice to say that sometime this afternoon after Mr. McCann's comments hit the newspapers, the graphic on the Swift Boat website was updated. Funny how that happens. The Swift Boat Vets have prioritized extending their 20 days of fame well ahead of listening to their own president's admonitions about keeping this fight going. The 527 group from the left of center might best be described as having listened to Mr. Bush while sticking their fingers in their ears and singing the, "I feel like I'm fixing to die" rag by Country Joe and the Fish as loudly as they can.

Moveon.org tonight premiering in New York 14 new anti-Bush commercials featuring everybody from Howard Dean to Rebecca Romijn, from Margaret Cho to Janeane Garofalo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey. Are you a Republican?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get in. Must be hard not having a candidate for president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, Republicans would never create the largest budget deficits in history or take away personal civil liberties like privacy or due process of law and they would never send troops into war without checking all the facts. I mean, they are the party that runs things like a business, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)


OLBERMANN: Like this country and the Soviet Union in the sixties and seventies, the 527 ad arms race continues to spiral upwards. The "Wall Street Journal" reporting that a group of well connected Republicans is now starting something called The November Fund to produce ads attacking John Edwards. "It's our legal right," says group co-chair Craig Fuller speaking of the president's comments. Fuller was chief of staff to Vice President George H.W. Bush. He says the 527 horse, quote, "left the barn, left the corral, and left the ranch months ago."

The Democrats have spent over $100 million on 527s, he adds. The figure given by the Bush campaign itself on Sunday was $63 million.

One's dreams are haunted by what television will look like on October 20 of this year. The occasional commercial for the upcoming new film "Surviving Christmas" with Ben Affleck and James Gandolfini swimming hopelessly in election ad after election ad after election ad. Can anything be done to avert the catastrophe that could consume America's collective brain? Joining me now, Derek Willis of the Center for Public Integrity, a non-profit, non-partisan think-thank that investigates public policy issues like this one.

Mr. Willis, good evening.

The head of a new pro-Bush 527 group basically tells Mr. Bush to kiss off, we're going to go do it anyway. On the surface that sure looks like a literal fulfillment of the law that requires that there be no coordination between a formal campaign and a 527 but does it also mean that the 527 groups are the thing that ate the campaign? Are they unstoppable?

DEREK WILLIS, CENTER FOR PUBLIC INTEGRITY: I don't know that they're unstoppable but what they are is you can't really shut them off entirely. You could perhaps shame some of them or as Republicans have tried to do with some of Moveon's ads and as Democrats have tried to do, sort of shout down the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth ads. But they are not particularly stoppable in terms of constitutional law because there is that first amendment issue they have to deal with before they get to shutting these type of groups down.

OLBERMANN: The Republican groups have answered every criticism about the Swift Boat ads with some sort of statement like that of Mr. Fuller which I just read of this new John Edwards - or anti-John Edwards group. Well, the Democrats have spent $100 million on the same kind of ads. Is that an honest answer in your investigation and in your interpretations either in scope or in tone or is it something of a red herring?

WILLIS: The Democratic groups have spent more than $100 million but it hasn't gone all gone to advertising and in fact a good chunk of it has gone to voter registration and turnout which arguably is as important as television advertising and less viewable for the American public. It doesn't really interrupt their nightly television viewing.

OLBERMANN: The Moveon.org ads though, the ones being premiered tonight as this one here we're seeing which is one about the dismantling as they put it of the clean air regulations by the Bush administration. These are really slick. They make the Swift Boat ads, in terms of production value, we're not talking about truth or anything else, but in terms of production value they look like medium quality documentaries, while these look like, as you're just seeing in this stuff, 30-second, big budget Hollywood films. Is this - that's actually the apex of this process or are we going further from here either in expenditures or in outlandishness?

WILLIS: I don't think there is any doubt that we will probably go further in expenditures and almost certainly in outlandishness and production quality. But it's also worth noting that you don't have to have a very high production quality in order to get your message across effectively. I think the 1988 Willie Horton ads with grainy images and stark images really showed us that you cannot have great production values and still get a meaningful message across effectively to voters.

But I think the sort of the gold standard was the "Man From Hope" video in 1992 and I think that is sort of what a lot of these liberal groups are sort of shooting for, to repeat that kind of atmosphere and that takes Hollywood production value so I don't see that sort of thing going away anytime soon.

OLBERMANN: And if you make them 14 at a time, you might get lucky. Derek Willis of the Center for Public Integrity. We appreciate your insight and your time.


WILLIS: Thanks for having me.

OLBERMANN: In addition to the overall charge that 527s are eating through the woodframe of the democracy, there remains the interior question about those Swift Boat ads. Do they survive the smell test? So far they've provoked the resignation of one member of the Veterans for Bush, Kerry's steering committee recanted statements by at least one of the guys in the ads. An angry protest by now four Swift Boat Veterans who claim the group used their images and lied about their opinions without their permission. Now our chief investigative correspondent Lisa Myers tries to fact check the commercials themselves.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-five years ago, John Kerry saved my life.

LISA MYERS, MSNBC INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former Green Beret Jim Rassmann says on March 13, 1969, an injured John Kerry plucked him from the river in the face of enemy fire for which Kerry was awarded a Bronze Star and a third Purple Heart.

35 years later, this man, former Swift Boat Lieutenant Larry Thurlow is leading the charge to discredit this key chapter of Kerry's story, claiming there was no enemy fire and that Kerry exaggerated his injuries.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He lied to manufacture that third Purple Heart. The plan was to use his Vietnam experience and use that as a platform into basically a career in politics.

MYERS: Here is what everyone agrees on. Five swiftboats come to a series of poles and fishing nets stretched across the river. Three boats go around to the left and two including Kerry's go right. A mine explodes under the lead boat on the left badly injuring the crew. Kerry's boat races through on the right. In the ensuing chaos, Rassmann falls into the river and Kerry pulls him out. Kerry was honored to great personal courage under fire, but Thurlow, two swiftboat skippers and an enlisted man are now saying there was no enemy fire.

THURLOW: We took no enemy fire from either bank. There not one manned wounded. There's not one bullet hole that day in any boat.

MYERS: This battle damage report from Kerry's boat does not show any bullet holes. But this one from another boat does, three .30 caliber bullet holes. Thurlow, claims that damage was from a sniper the day before.

(on camera): What's more, Thurlow, also received a bronze star for heroism that day. And his own citation reportedly refers to "Enemy bullets flying about him."

If this is false, why did you accept the bronze star and will you now return it?


THURLOW: I knew it was false, but nobody else was going see it. I accepted it, because I felt at the time I had been given the thing because I saved the wounded on the boat and saved the boat.

MYERS: Thurlow, says that if being under enemy fire is required to earn the medal, he will give it back. Rassmann, Kerry's crew and an enlisted man on another boat insists Kerry was under significant enemy fire.

RASSMANN: He put his life on the line by coming out of that pilot and coming up and pulling me onto the deck. There was fire there. He thought he was going to get killed, I was amazed he didn't get killed.

MYERS: For you to be right, all available military documentation would have to be wrong, and all those vets supporting Kerry would have to be mistaken or lying.

THURLOW: Yes, they would.

MYERS (voice-over): There also are inconsistencies in Kerry's version of the events. His medal citation says his arm was bleeding and in pain, but a Doctor's report refers only to a contusion or bruise.

Thurlow, a Republican, acknowledges his memory may be colored over Kerry's subsequent public opposition to the war. A war still being waged today.

Lisa Myers, NBC News, Kansas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Continuing the fifth story, the first lady and the women who would be first lady, both in the news, both in unflattering light.

The newspaper in Tucson, "The Arizona Daily Star," probably made a mistake in granting Elizabeth Edwards request that she get to pick who would interview her for that newspaper. But she helped. John Edwards wife, asked that women reporter be assigned to do the feature on her, and the paper consented. But then Mrs. Edwards staff asked for Cathalena E. Burch and the paper said no way. Ms. Birch is "The Daily Star's" music critic. The newspaper says it regrets giving Mrs. Edwards input into the identity of her interviewer.

What if anything Laura Bush did at a gala in Cincinnati last night remains unconfirmed, but "The New York Post" reporting that the first lady refused to appear on the same stage as hip hop star, Sean "P. Diddy" Combs. Each was to be on hand for dedication of the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center, along side Angela Bassett, the actress, Bono from U2 and other politicians.


But according to "The Post," Mrs. Bush's people quote "Made it very clear to Freedom Center that they would not have Laura Bush appearing in the same photo op as P. Diddy." She made it to the event, he did not, leading credence to this report. Combs, himself then pulled out of the event telling organizers he had a, "Unexpected personal obligation."

Quite a surprise for Mrs. Bush's husband, if anybody would have read one of the news magazine to him, there would have been an item in there, that he would have learned about, that the man who is to introduce him at the Republican Convention a week from Thursday is reportedly making preparations to run for the presidency himself in 2008.

"Newsweek," reporting that the governor's convention scheduled, George Pataki's schedule next week reads suspiciously, aspirational. He will be the featured guest at the raiser for the New Hampshire Republican Party on Monday. New Hampshire, where the first primary is just three years and five months away. The magazine also reports, the strategy meeting, with key advisors, to discussing a possible Pataki White House run, four years hence.

His aides and advisor tried to defuse the issue today, calling it, just the political rumor mill at work. You speak as if the political rumor mill were a bad thing. Without it our special shows from the Republican Convention next we would be almost impossible.

COUNTDOWN to the convention, weekday afternoons at 5:00 p.m. Eastern, 2:00 p.m. Pacific. All the day's political news, it's non-political news and the political non-news, live at 5:00. Be there, aloha.

This edition of COUNTDOWN opening up with politics, specificly the growing barrage of 527 ads.

Up next, the Nader affect. Right now Florida is a tie without him.

Come election day, will Florida be without him?

And later, John Kerry has completed his first major interview since the swiftboat controversy surfaced. It will air on Comedy Central. What does that say about the state of decision 2004.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Tonight's No. 4 story is next. Without him, Florida is a statical dead heat in the damp heat. Will Florida be without him come election day. Ralph Nader, his story, the latest on him, next on COUNTDOWN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)


OLBERMANN: In the coil and recoil over the swiftboats in the choppy seas between the two political conventions, two important words about the 2004 election have not within spoken much recently, Ralph, Nader.

Our fourth story in the COUNTDOWN, if his performance spoiling Florida and perhaps the 2000 election for Al Gore, had not be achievement enough, the independent presidential candidate has been singled out in the subject of an attack ad of his known. Recoiling at the thought of what they see as another spoiler in the maker, liberal activist group, "The Nader Factor," led by former campaign workers for Wesley Clark, Howard Dean and Dick Gephardt has taken to the airwaves.

A 60 second commercial that began running in Wisconsin and New Mexico today. And the group charges Republican groups have assisted Nader efforts to get on the ballot in key battleground states, because "The right wing believes that helping Ralph Nader helps George Bush." He certainly seems to be doing so in Florida, again.

So far, Nader, has met the qualifications to be on the ballots of only 11 states, but one of those is the sunshine where he will be included as the Reform Party Candidate. A "USA TODAY"/Gallop poll released today, shows the Democratic challenger in razor thin race for Florida.

Among likely voters, the president leads the senator 48 to 46 percent; the other 2 percent to Nader. With no Nader in the poll picture, it is a dead heat. Florida's electoral votes would then go to Mr. Margin of Error.

Nader was on 43 state ballots four years ago. Florida is a yes, but he didn't make it in Missouri, South Carolina, Texas, eight others. He faces petition challenges in many more. And a spokesman's hope today that he will be on a, quote, "vast majority" of vast ballots seems optimistic. And the rumors continue of his own supporters desperately pleading with him to drop out and endorse John Kerry.

To take the Nader temperature, I'm joined again by "The Wall Street Journal's" national political editor, John Harwood. John, good evening.

JOHN HARWOOD, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Hi, Keith.

OLBERMANN: Previously on this newscast, we have psychoanalyzed why he might be running, but what about how long he can keep running? Is there a point at which the money dries up and it's not a question of snipe ads or pleadings, but just practicality?

HARWOOD: Well, as long as he has got enough money for a plane ticket, he will get some attention in some places. The question is how many people are going to get a chance to vote for him? The market is smaller for Ralph Nader this year. That means he has got less ground troops, less people willing to give him money, although he has picked up some support from Republicans, which he is happy to accept even though Democrats are protesting.

But I think Ralph Nader is going to stay at this as long as he can, see how many ballots he can get on and try to make his point.

OLBERMANN: In that one shot there, he seemed to be low on graffiti (sic). It looked there were about six pieces of paper flying by his head as he celebrated.


If he discontinued, voluntarily and involuntarily, what happens to his name on the ballots in the states he's already in? Specifically we're talking about Florida. Does it stay there anyway? Could he still impact a swing state, sort of postmortem, after the death of his campaign?

HARWOOD: Often times you can, Keith, because the process of printing ballots is moving forward, and one of the interesting things about this election is voters are going to actually start voting in just a few weeks, because so many states have gone to these easy absentee voting procedures. Some states are going to start voting in mid-September. In Florida, it's mid-October, and at that point ballots will have been printed, a lot of people will have votes in their hands and they will be able to vote for Ralph Nader, assuming that nothing has impeded his qualifications between now and then.

OLBERMANN: Who knows what the anti-Nader that we're talking about would do the audience that sees them? What will he think of them? Will they just serve to reinforce his sense of being on a mission from something?

HARWOOD: All the evidence so far suggests, Keith, this is just firming up his desire to stay in the race and try to make his point. He gets very indignant about Democrats and other liberals coming after him. There is a lot of them. He is getting a lot of flak from his own base, people who supported him last time, people who have been historically with him. And you see in these "Nader Factor" ads, they are interesting attack ads. They're not all that negative toward Nader, but they talk about the impact that he is going to have, and they are running them now, while Nader volunteers are trying to collect petitions. In some of these states, where they are trying to go to shopping malls and places to get support, they are trying to cut off his oxygen before he can get on the ballot.

OLBERMANN: John Harwood, the national political editor of "The Wall Street Journal." As always, sir, we appreciate your perspective and especially your time.

HARWOOD: My pleasure.

OLBERMANN: Later tonight on COUNTDOWN, why John Kerry gave his first big one-on-one post convention interview to Jon Stewart.

First, from being on the ballot in Florida to not getting a ballot in Florida. An investigation by the newspaper "The New York Daily News" found 46,000 New Yorkers are registered to vote in both New York State and Florida. And now both states are clamping down on them. A study of computer records found as many as 1,000 people who voted twice in at least one election, some in as many as seven. One case has been referred to Florida state's attorney general for criminal prosecution. Please leave the chads to the natives.

Numbers five and four completed. We will pause the COUNTDOWN in a moment for a nightly dose of "Oddball." Pamplona may long be over, but fear not, the bulls are running on this continent now. It's like a rock concert tour. Although they don't seem to be running too much.

And later, a 7-year-old hero. He holds it together in a moment of crisis. He saves his grandfather's life with a call to 911. And we'll listen to it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: We're back, and we take leave from the news of political wars and partisan bickering, and enter the segment full of the neat video and oh those cute little animals with 23 toes. Let's play "Oddball."


And why fly all the way to Spain for the running of the bulls when you can get the cheap Mexican knockoff right here on this continent? They have actually been running their imitation event annually for 50 years in La Montla (ph), but that does not mean they have got the whole process down just yet. It's the running part that seems to escape them.

Here, the bulls seem to be milling around in the crowd, just looking for somebody to gore, perhaps pick a pocket or pester. Of course, as in Pamplona, our four-legged friends meet the same horrible fate in the bull ring at the end of the run. That's why we're always rooting for the bulls to take a few people down with them. The organizers say they were no serious injuries to humans this year, although you might get a second opinion from that guy.

To Sturetsville (ph), Minnesota where over the last decade or so a lot of strange things have crawled out of that local pond. So when two girls found a frog with five legs, that barely raised an eyebrow. But there was something different about this five-legged frog. Something horrifying. It is 23 toes. Twenty-three toes!

Experts who know nothing about the top secret experimenters being conducted by the pedicure industry say the cause could be environmental or perhaps evolutional, or it might just be a resurgence in breeding attempts by the French National Association of Frog Leg Development.

Finally, to the Louisville zoo, where it's time to give the elephants their annual physicals. I feel like Kent Brockman.

They put it off for long enough, but every pachyderm knows the key to long-term health is exercise and regular checkups. Got to keep the weight down. Portable scales, used usually to weight tractor trailer trucks, were brought in for Dumbo and company. Mickey, the African elephant, checked in at 7,750 pounds; Paunch the Asian at 10,660, and Chuckles the Clown is no longer with us.

"Oddball" now belongs to the ages. Up next, tonight's No. 3 story:

The abuses at Abu Ghraib. One official calls it "animal house on the night shift." But the blame is clearly also going to members of the faculty.

And later, one Russian passenger aircraft crashes, another, same model, same airport, at the same time disappears. Could it be something other than terrorism? These stories ahead. First, here are COUNTDOWN's top three newsmakers of this day.

No. 3, Roy Ritenaur of Summerduck, Virginia. He was hit by lightning last week. That would be number six to Roy in just 35 years. He's one bolt short of Park Ranger Ray Sullivan's state record of seven. Good luck to you, Roy!

No. 2, Air Canada. The national airline almost lost the national treasure. Hockey's Stanley Cup trophy was bumped from a flight from Vancouver Sunday because the plane was too heavy. It was left overnight in a storage room. The cup has seen worse. It has been left on a Montreal street, put on display in a bowling alley and was once drop-kicked into Ottawa's Rideau Canal.

And, No. 1, Allyssa and Grant Kuseske. A year ago next Monday, Allyssa gave birth to twins. Last Thursday, she gave birth to two more twins. The Kuseskes live in St. Paul, which is one of Minnesota's twin cities.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: It was May 8, 2002. One passenger flight crashed off the coast of China, a second in the same day in Tunisia. That coincidence was extraordinary enough. And the timing, three days short of eight months after 9/11, still made it suspicious.

Our third story on the COUNTDOWN, terror and its presumption. Two jets of the same make and model took off from the same Russian airport on the same day. One is confirmed down and the other declared missing at almost the same time. Officials have now verified the crash of the first jet, about 125 miles south of Moscow, 42 people on bored. No survivors expected.

At about the same time, a second jet with another 46 on board vanished from radar screens about 600 miles south of Moscow. Both planes were Tupolev Tu-154 jets, a standard airliner on domestic flights in Russia. Officials are not ruling out terrorism. They have increased security at all Russian airports, but there have been no groundings reported.

There are now also reports that witnesses saw an explosion before the crash of the first aircraft. And the Interfax news agency say emergency workers spotted a fire in the region where the second aircraft vanished.

Terrorism expert MSNBC analyst Steve Emerson joins me now.

Steve, good evening.

STEVE EMERSON, NBC TERRORISM ANALYST: Good evening, Keith.

OLBERMANN: Same airport, same kind of planes, same day, same disappearance time. Are the odds not too overwhelming for this not to have been deliberate, whether it's terrorism, per se, or just sabotage of some sort?

EMERSON: No, I think you pointed out well that it could have been sabotage or terrorism. The odds of it being a spontaneous malfunction are just too great. It is always possible, but the bottom line here is that it could have been sabotage or terrorism. Investigators really don't know at this point.

OLBERMANN: Are they not, though, some of the least reliable planes? Is there not a factor which doesn't necessarily preclude terrorism? It might just be an easier target. But these are not Boeings out there.

EMERSON: I was speaking to an airplane - aviation specialist about an hour ago. And he said that this has high rate of malfunctions and certain a higher rate of disasters than other airplanes. Clearly, the fact is that they don't know at this point, as you pointed out. The coincidences are bizarre when we think about a simultaneous explosion of both planes.


OLBERMANN: If you think Russia, you think Chechen terrorists. And if you think Chechen terrorists and you think of the Russian security agency, the FSB, tonight, President Putin has ordered that the FSB investigate these two incidents.

Moscow theater atrocity, the subway bombing earlier this year. Would this be within that pattern of what the Chechen have shown their terrorist acts have shown their terrorist acts being, just kill as many people as possible and make a statement later?

EMERSON: And find vulnerabilities in the system.

Clearly, they don't even follow any pattern. They are always inventing and pushing the envelope of terrorism to the point of carrying out rock concert suicide bombings, as you pointed out, the Moscow theater episode. And so clearly right now, that is on the table. Of course, there could have been organized crime motivation here, because there is a lot of that type of sabotage and killings going on in Russia.

OLBERMANN: Map out for me lastly what the first stages of the investigation would be in Russia if there is no claim of responsibility for this. How would you go about proving that this was terror?

EMERSON: Even if there is a claim, the Chechens might - and even if they didn't take it out, do it, they might claim responsibility as an opportunistic thing. But, clearly, there are flight recorders. There's the pinning of the fragmentation. There's the issue of whether in fact the passenger manifest had been reconciled with the baggage.

So there are all these telltale signs. And I think they will be able to determine within 24 to 48 hours whether in fact it was terrorism or just sabotage done by some disgruntled organized crime motivated factor.

OLBERMANN: Or the most extraordinary set of air disasters in aviation history, I guess.

MSNBC's terrorism expert, Steve Emerson - thanks for coming in, Steve.

EMERSON: Sure.

OLBERMANN: On the other end of the terrorism stick, the U.S. military continues to investigate what went wrong in the treatment and interrogation of terror suspects in Iraq.

Since the emergence of the graphic details of prison abuse at the Abu Ghraib, the focus has been on two explanations, rogue soldiers at the prison level or misguided leadership, two explanations, now two investigations. Mannheim, Germany, a military judge presiding over the trial of seven Army reservists charged in the abuse scandal ruled out what would have been a headline-making witness. Judge James Pohl rejected a defense attorney's request to force Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to submit to an interview about what he knew about the treatment of prisoners.


Pohl stated the request for an interview could be raised again if the defense can show a Rumsfeld connection to the case.

And, last night, our correspondent Fred Francis reported from Mannheim exclusive details about a searing Pentagon inquiry into how far up the chain of command responsibility goes. Today, the full scope of that investigation, led by the former Defense Secretary James Schlesinger, became public.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRED FRANCIS, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The panel said there was chaos at the prison, severe understaffing and failures of leadership at every level, allowing sadism among a small group of G.I.s.

JAMES SCHLESINGER, CHAIRMAN OF ABU GHRAIB INVESTIGATIVE PANEL: Sadism that was certainly not organized. It was a kind of animal house on the night shift.

FRANCIS: Schlesinger and the others on the panel said the actions of some M.P.s did not result from a policy of torture and abuse, but from serious gaps and confusion in lines of command.

TILLIE FOWLER, ABU GHRAIB PANEL MEMBER: It was shocking to find that during the time the worst abuses that were occurring, it was not clear who if anyone was really in charge at Abu Ghraib.

FRANCIS: Today, Schlesinger was only mildly critical of the secretary of defense, saying his office was only indirectly to blame.

There was harsher criticism for his top generals. And the panel directed its toughest words for the senior officers at Abu Ghraib, saying they should have known what was going on.

(on camera): The news from Washington was good for some of the accused M.P.s who had pretrial hearings here in Germany, giving credence to their defense that they did not act alone, that now in an official report some of their senior officers share some of the blame.

The lawyer for Sergeant Ivan Frederick, who agreed to plead guilty to some charges this week, thinks the numbers of accused will grow.

GARY MYERS, ATTORNEY FOR IVAN FREDERICK: After today, we will no longer hear that it was just seven rogue soldiers. After today, the second line of defense from the government seems to be now that it was just 28 rogue soldiers.


FRANCIS (voice-over): Sergeant Frederick said the guilty plea will end a nightmare that began when he was assigned to the prison.

IVAN FREDERICK, CHARGED IN ABU GHRAIB SCANDAL: Everything just went down hill since we got to Abu Ghraib in October, that the whole mission just turned upside down.

FRANCIS: Upside down for the Pentagon, too, and no end is near. In the military court here today, Army prosecutors said for the first time that officers may be charged.

Fred Francis, NBC News, Mannheim, Germany.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Back in Iraq itself, despite another apparent cease-fire agreement, despite the release of an American hostage, nothing is yet settled in Najaf.

For the third night in a row, strong explosions rocked that city, bombings conducted by U.S. aircraft intended to tighten the ring around insurgents loyal to the Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. The Iraq government's troops have now closed to within 200 yards, as close as they have gotten yet of the Imam Ali shrine, where al-Sadr and his supporters remain.

Iraqi's defense minister says the insurgents have only hours to surrender or they will face a violent raid.

Two stories left on COUNTDOWN. Up next, little boy, big hero, how a 7-year-old kid managed to save his grandfather's life. Then later, a heavenly new job for Ellen DeGeneres, reprising a classic George Burns' role.

But, first, here are COUNTDOWN's top three sound bites of this day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARTURO SANTIAGO: And take a look down this street here. This - this has been closed down - whoa. OK, we almost got hit by an automobile here. Sorry about that, folks. Caution tape almost took our light out and my head off. Let's try to help her out here a little bit here. This is an elderly woman.


LAURA MCPHERSON, REPORTER: The chase finally ended when the car came to a stop right up there on the Franklin Road overpass. Some driver tells us that he had a perfectly good explanation for not wanting to stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just told you because I'm drunk and I ain't got a license.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: General Myers, the vice president, and Condi and I just had a long-ranging discussion with our key members of the defense team about a variety of subjects. We talked about Iraq. We're making progress on the ground. We were briefed not...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Still ahead on COUNTDOWN, a child's heroism at a time of crisis, the call to 911 that saved his grandfather's life. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: What was life like for you at the age of 7? Tom Sawyer's summers, a world where everything was silly and life consisted of a series of cascading snickers. Did you have fun? Did you ever save somebody's life?

Our second story on the COUNTDOWN tonight, 7 years old and when crisis came, he knew exactly what to do.

Our correspondent is Cheryl Preheim of our station in Denver, KUSA.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good catch.


CHERYL PREHEIM, KUSA REPORTER (voice-over): Seven-year-old Trystan Meadows (ph) and his grandpa are bed buds.

TRYSTAN: We do a lot of stuff with each other.

PREHEIM: They will have many more special times like this.

TRYSTAN: Let's try it again, grandpa.

PREHEIM: He Trystan knew just what to do when his grandpa collapsed.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TRYSTAN: Hello, my grandpa, he fell and now he can't talk. I need help immediately.

SHENIKWA TIGNER, DISPATCHER: OK. how old are you, honey?

TRYSTAN: Seven.

TIGNER: You're 7. OK.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TRYSTAN: He was doing weird movements.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Having a seizure. I guess my arms were flailing, my legs.

TRYSTAN: The lady on the phone told me what to do.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TIGNER: I want to go lay your ear next to his nose and listen for him to breath and his chest.

TRYSTAN: OK, he's breathing because I think he's snoring.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PREHEIM: Shenikwa Tigner was the dispatcher that day.

TIGNER: We deal with people at the worse moments of their lives and this kid held it together the whole way. So he did awesome.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TIGNER: Push his forehead back until his chin tilts up.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was amazing that a 7-year-old had that much presence.


TRYSTAN: I was scared.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TIGNER: You need to stay right there with him.

TRYSTAN: This is so, so scary.

TIGNER: OK, you are doing really good, sweetie, OK?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PREHEIM: The ambulance came within five minutes.

LT. BILL BRANDT, AURORA FIRE DEPARTMENT: Oh, it was a very serious call. Yes, he was completely unconscious and unresponsive when we got there.

PREHEIM: Aurora Fire paramedics say the fast call to 911 saved grandpa Meadows his life. Now Trystan is an honorary junior EMT.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am so proud of my little boy.

PREHEIM: And a hero in his grandpa's eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm so glad he was there.


(END VIDEOTAPE)

OLBERMANN: Cheryl Preheim of KUSA in Denver reporting there.

Time to make the nightly segue from the top five stories to the top fame stories, the segment we like to call "Keeping Tabs."

And the most eagerly anticipated witness, if not the most important one, in the Scott Peterson murder case can go home now. Under cross-examination, Amber Frey maintained her composure today, replying to Mark Geragos's questions calmly, telling the court that Peterson had never asked her not to go to the police, that he was never violent with her, that he never actually said he loved her.

She never even looked at him as she spoke. Geragos even played one of Ms. Frey's recorded conversations in which she asks Scott Peterson about his wife's disappearance, saying - quote - "I assume that she is missing because you love me, right?" To which Peterson replied, "Amber, she is missing because someone abducted her."

More traditional tabs, another Hollywood movie remake, but this one has as big a twist as you might be able to imagine. God is not merely a woman. She is a lesbian and for that matter she is a lesbian talk show host. I knew it. Warner Brothers casting Ellen DeGeneres to star in the remake of the 1977 comedy "Oh, God." The producer of the new film produced the original two in which the deity was played by George Burns, not exactly the same kind of character.

Fortunately, nobody has nominated Russell Crowe. A British tabloid

says the intense Australian actor has pulled a Mike Tyson and bit the ear

of a friend and bodyguard named Spud. London's "Sunday Mirror" reports

that Crowe was in Toronto filming ironically enough a boxing picture and

out having a few beers with his bodyguard Spud Carroll, when Carroll

suggested it was time for Crowe to go home to the wife and kid. Crowe then


· quote - "flipped," according to a supposed witness, and bit his friend.

And it's not truly fair to his friends or family, but the line is irresistible and it has already been nationwide and locally. The man who coined the term "Elvis has left the building" has left the building. Al Dvorin was not the first arena announcer to actually use the phrase in hopes of clearing out hangers-around after Elvis Presley concerts, but he was the most famous and he used it for years and years. Dvorin died in a traffic accident just days after his last performance at a concert and panel discussion by the Elvis impersonator Paul Casey in California over the weekend. Al Dvorin was 81 years old.

Still ahead of us here on COUNTDOWN, you will see why one of these men is giving his first one-on-one interview in weeks to a guy who was once the host of the TV series "Short Attention Span Theater."

Stand by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OLBERMANN: Every day on this newscast, we walk a fine line, trying to balance the required effort at responsible journalism with the option to frequently focus on the less serious issues - oh, a kitty.

(LAUGHTER)

OLBERMANN: Nobody here thinks we're reshaping the world. It just is beginning to look more and more like our cockeyed view of it.

The No. 1 story on the COUNTDOWN tonight, for his first national one-on-one interview in weeks, Democratic candidate John Kerry selected a man whose previous journalistic credentials include hosting the Comedy Channel's "Short Attention Span Theater," a cameo in a Steve Martin movie and his role listed 40th in the credits in the pot-smoking genre film classic "Half-Baked," Jon Stewart of Comedy Central's "The Daily Show."

Not to question his intelligence, nor the biting wit of his program - and my 25 years in broadcasting basically divvy up into 20 years of sports and five of news - but today's sit-down, at-length interview with Kerry seemed to signal a sea change in the relationship between satirical television pseudo-news and the real world of contemporary politics.

Responding to a question abortion swift boat ads, the senator said - quote - "It is disappointing, because I think most Americans would like to have a much more intelligent conversation about where the country is going." But he also told Stewart, "Believe it or not, I've been through worse."

Political satirist John DeVore is now an associate editor with "Maxim" magazine. He was the lead writer for "The Daily Show" and "Indecision 2000" Web sites.


Mr. DeVore, good evening.

JOHN DEVORE, "MAXIM": How you doing, Keith? What's up?

OLBERMANN: Is this phenomenon purely a party thing? Could you ever see George Bush doing a one-on-one with Jon Stewart or is this John Kerry going where his potential voters are?

DEVORE: Well, you know, first of all, I don't think it's an alliance between comedy and politics. I think politicians are using the satire platform to get their message out, Keith.

OLBERMANN: And yet much of the destruction of the fire wall, if you will, between those - thou shalt not go where humor or entertainment is used was in some way enabled by Rush Limbaugh, wasn't it? Didn't this sort of erasure start with the conservatives?

DEVORE: Oh, sure.

Limbaugh for years, fruitcake that he is, used - told people that he was an entertainer, that he made jokes, that he wasn't this fanatical like right-wing comedian - or, rather, ideologue, but he always kind of hid behind the veneer of comedy. And a lot of - like Air America is another liberal example of that.

OLBERMANN: Was Jon Stewart's show in particular and in fact the whole concept of mixing news and satire authenticated earlier this year when Ted Koppel said - let me get the quote exactly right - "A lot of television viewers, more quite frankly than I'm comfortable with, get their news from a program called 'The Daily Show'"?

With a statement like that, was he saying to people who watch "The Daily Show" or perhaps some of the spillover that watches this one, you're going to sit there and be bored and you're going to watch us whether you like us or not?

DEVORE: You know, it made me feel sorry actually for Ted when I saw him make that statement. I wanted to give him a hug. That was more of a message from another era of the three network era kind of being upset that people are finding new platforms in which to get their political information.

It just kind of made me sad, actually, that that happened,really. I mean, Ted is behind the times.

OLBERMANN: Can this get - can this go further? Is there something that's going to wind up where a presidential candidate is interviewed by "Space Ghost Coast to Coast" or something?


(LAUGHTER)

DEVORE: I don't know. It's weird, this election cycle. It's like the marriage between Milton Berle and Lee Atwater, this use of humor as a facade for political agenda.

I think - it's like Bill Clinton used Arsenio Hall's show playing saxophone to great effect. So I don't really think there's anything strange about this combination of like entertainment and politics.

OLBERMANN: Well, it was - it certainly is not as strange as that sight we just saw there of the motorcycle ride of John Kerry onto the "Jay Leno" set. And, by the way, thank you for passing the information on. I didn't know that Lee Atwater and Milton Berle actually had gotten married.

DEVORE: They had a love child, actually.

OLBERMANN: John DeVore of "Maxim" magazine, thank you for your time tonight, sir.

DEVORE: Thank you, Keith.

OLBERMANN: A final reminder. Next week, when the Republicans go to New York, we will, too, COUNTDOWN to the convention, 5:00 p.m. Eastern, 2:00 Pacific, next week here on MSNBC. Be there. Aloha.

That's COUNTDOWN. Thanks for being part of it. I'm Keith Olbermann.

Good night and good luck.

END