Two episodes for this date.
Click to go directly to:
Pre-debate, 8 PM
Post-debate, 11 PM
Thursday, January 31, 2008
'Countdown with Keith Olbermann' for Jan. 31, 11 p.m. ET
Guests: Eugene Robinson, David Axelrod, Mark Penn, John Amato, Josh Marshall, Arianna Huffington
KEITH OLBERMANN, MSNBC ANCHOR: At the top of the hour is Countdown's coverage of the electoral debate continues now. This is Countdown's continuing coverage of the Democratic debate. Good evening. I'm Keith Olbermann.
And in the end, tonight's Democratic debate at the Kodak Theater in Hollywood, California, was not "American Idol." It was not the Academy Awards. It was not even last week's slum lord slug fest in South Carolina. And our fifth story in the Countdown, the Democrat Party, not to mention the American democracy, should be all the better for it. The candidates finding more common ground than engaging in verbal fisticuffs with each other.
Although a handshake at the outset would have been nice. There was the hug and almost kiss at the end. Facing only each other for the first time in the campaign, it would be their last debate before Super Tuesday. Super being perhaps just the word to describe the substance of their policy discussions, including how they would bring troops home from Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will do everything I can to get as many of our troops out as quickly as possibly, taking into account all of these contingencies that we're going to have to contend with once we're in charge and once we can get into the Pentagon to figure out what's really there and what's going on.
WOLF BLITZER, MODERATOR: Right. You can't make a commitment, though, that 16 months after your inauguration would be enough time?
CLINTON: I certainly hope it will be. And I said I hope to have nearly all of them out within a year.
BLITZER: Go ahead.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, you know, I think it is important for us to be as careful getting out as we were careless getting in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: The candidates also addressing a question of taxes. They wouldn't have even had to threaten to raise to be called tax and spend liberals by the Republicans, rolling back the current administration's tax cut should be enough to get them that honor. And both candidates tonight fighting back that charge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I don't think the Republicans are going to be in a real strong position to argue fiscal responsibility when they've added $4 trillion or $5 trillion worth of national debt. You know, I am happy to have that argument. If John McCain, for example, is the nominee, I'd respect that John McCain, in the first two rounds of Bush tax cuts, said, it is irresponsible that we have never before cut taxes at the same time as we're going into war. And somewhere along the line, the straight talk express lost some wheels and now he is in favor of extending Bush tax cuts that went to some of the wealthiest Americans who don't need them and were not even asking for them.
CLINTON: It's just really important to underscore here that we will go back to the tax rates we had before George Bush became president. And my memory is people did really well during that time period and they will keep doing really well.
OBAMA: They were. That's right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: This was Hollywood. This was the site both of the "American Idol" finals and, of course, of the Oscars, back when they still used to have the Oscars. And if you did not watch this, you missed, again, more cutaways of celebrities in the crowd.
There's a point to this. Stevie Wonder was there. Bradley Whitford, Lauren Holly, Jason Alexander, Rob Reiner, Diane Keaton, Pierce Brosnan, Steven Spielberg, Ed Helms, Kate Capshaw, Brandy, Alfrey Woodard, America Ferrara, Fisher Stevens, Isaiah Washington where there, Topher Grace and, at the end, Fran Drescher. The most important part of this, of course, the reason we're mentioning it is, they were all in the box seats. They were all down at ground level. We are told that Congresswoman Jane Harman), one of the most significant people in American politics, certainly in California politics, was seated in the mezzanine. If you've never lived in Los Angeles, that was it in a nutshell.
We're now going to analyze what we saw. Eugene Robinson, columnist and associate editor at the "Washington Post" is good enough to be back with us.
And, Gene, with some time to reflect on this, did anybody win? Was there a winner? And I'm not asking this to try to elicit one answer or the other. I just don't know.
EUGENE ROBINSON, "WASHINGTON POST": I'm not really sure either. I think there were narrow victories on various issues. I think Obama wins on Iraq. I thought she - maybe Pat Buchanan is right, that she won on immigration or she was clearer on immigration. There wasn't much of a decisive victory by either side in this debate. There was a lot more agreement than disagreement. I'm sure you noticed that one thing they're in complete agreement on is what a fine human being John Edwards is. And the fact that fine human beings...
OLBERMANN: Now that he's gone.
ROBINSON: Right, exactly. And all his supporters are fine human beings, too, by the way. And they might want to consider supporting either Obama or Clinton now.
But it was - you know, I wouldn't call it a lovefest, despite the hug at the end. I didn't get a sense of true love between the two of them. But they were respectful and it seemed to be two campaigns who thought they were in pretty good shape right now.
OLBERMANN: The question was asked at the end, and it was a note that was there from the beginning, that looked to some degree like a ticket. Was there some self-protective measure invoked here? Because we've had such acrimony. And as we discussed earlier, we love to see the acrimony. Then there isn't any acrimony. We wonder where it is. It happens. We get all upset about it. The acrimony wasn't there even to the point where several times there were subtle jabs about flip-flopping, especially on the issue of immigration, on both of them and they wound up agreeing that it was a tough issue and maybe every once in a while you would flip-flop.
ROBINSON: Right. Right. So, aw, it was nothing, you know, just a little flip flop. They - the acrimony was just like in the last couple of days. I mean, Obama has been going after Hillary Clinton with pretty tough language yesterday and earlier today. So this was kind of a sudden flowering of their mutual respect and friendship.
And clearly was a considered decision by both camps to be that nice. I took them at their word that neither is thinking about taking second place on a ticket at this point. And I think they both think that they can still win this thing and that they're set up to win this thing and this was a night to chill out a little bit.
OLBERMANN: Yes. Well, if there's bloodletting, it will come later, I guess. I guess they're willing to go into Super Tuesday allowing the other one to survive.
Eugene Robinson...
ROBINSON: Well, unless...
OLBERMANN: Go ahead.
ROBINSON: I was just saying, unless tomorrow the knives come at you.
OLBERMANN: Exactly. With a live audience, with people actually seeing what they're saying, they're not going to say anything like that.
Eugene Robinson with the "Washington Post." Always a pleasure, sir.
ROBINSON: Good to be here, Keith.
OLBERMANN: All right. Turning now to MSNBC political analyst Pat Buchanan and Rachel Maddow. And when last we discussed things with them, the subject of Iraq had come up, which might have been maybe the biggest area of dispute between the two and for reasons that have been long present.
But, Rachel, I'm wondering, do you think Hillary Clinton answered any of those people in the Democratic Party who are literally holding her vote in 2002 - late 2002, early 2003 her votes and her stance against her. Did she convince anybody to go with her? And if she did not, what can she do about a, winning the nomination, and, b, winning the election without them?
RACHEL MADDOW: She made it considerably worse for herself tonight on Iraq. And I think that's why I would say, if I had to pick a winner, I would say she lost the debate because of Iraq. Previously when Obama has pointing out that he was against the war when she was voting for the use of force, she's counterpunched by pointing out his softer statements earlier on in the war and the fact that he's voted to continue funding it since he's been in the Senate.
Tonight she didn't counterpunch. And instead she decided to explain that her vote in 2002 - when she voted that way was a complete shock to her that Bush used that use of force authorization as an excuse to go to war.
OLBERMANN: As a use of force.
MADDOW: Yes, exactly. I remember vividly that night in October, 2002, driving around and around and around in my Ford because I didn't have a TV and somebody was broadcasting those Senate floor speeches. And when she started to give her speech, I literally - and I don't mean to be dramatic here - I literally remember crying as I was driving because she was voting for the war.
We all knew she was voting for the war. She was voting for the war. She knew she was voting for the war. It's one thing to be wrong. It's another thing to go back and say, how could I have known? I was so surprised? It insults me personally for her to have make that case tonight. And I think it insults all of us who remember that far back or can Google it tonight.
OLBERMANN: Pat.
PAT BUCHANAN: I'm not insulted, but I will say I thought that was the strongest - look, Barack Obama did two things tonight. The most important thing, I think, he got back up - he got away from the Rezco/Wal-Mart nonsense and got back up as sort of an inspirational leader. And you got all of that race/gender stuff out of there.
Secondly, on Iraq, he was very good. He had two outstanding lines. He said, the important thing is to be right on day one, which goes right at her. And the second line, which I thought was a very good line, we've not only got to end the war, we've got to end the mindset that brought on this war.
And I think those two are really telling lines and maybe because I happen to agree with the position, but I thought they were the best lines that Barack got tonight besides - also, let me add one thing. I think his humor came back.
OLBERMANN: Yes.
BUCHANAN: And it's a very - it's a soft humor about the wheels coming off McCain and Romney's investment looks like it's going a little bad. And you can smile with his humor. And so I think, in this sense, he really helped himself, especially in the second half of the debate. In the first half, I thought Hillary was basically winning on points.
OLBERMANN: Where, Rachel, was Hillary's answer on any of the three occasions when Barack Obama said, I've always been against the war? We've seen her husband say, this is a fairy tale. We know what sort of trouble happened as a result of that. But she seemed to just punt on each of those three occasions.
MADDOW: I think that she, for some reason, seemed intimidated to give that standard counterpunch that she's been giving. I mean Barack Obama is not perfect on the war. He said tonight that - he makes the case eloquently that, you know, it's important to have had the judgement to see it was wrong from the beginning. But then he says stuff like, it's important to me to complete the mission and we need to show the Iraqis we're serious. You know, what part of a 3rd Infantry Division doesn't make us look serious?
There's a lot of ways in which he's showing he doesn't get the fundamental problem that Iraq is for America right now. He's not perfect on the war. She could hit him on that. I don't know why she isn't especially when it's probably the worst thing about her record for the Democratic base.
BUCHANAN: Well, the reason she doesn't do that is, you don't fight somebody on your weakest ground. In my judgment, and I think this is her weakest ground. I do think she could have at least made the case that her husband did make fairly, that after speaking against the war, he voted for it, for it, for it. But again, when you get more and more deeply into that, I mean, Hillary has an indefensible position for the audience she's courting. So the sooner she gets off that, the better.
MADDOW: She needs to say that vote in 2002 was wrong and stop say...
BUCHANAN: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
MADDOW: No, listen, what she's saying - but listen to the alternative.
She's saying, I had no idea Bush would use that as an excuse to go to war.
That makes her sound like an idiot.
BUCHANAN: Wait a minute. Look, she - why would you say - if you say that my vote was wrong, I made a mistake, what you're saying is the most important vote of my public life, I made a mistake and it brought on the biggest strategic disaster in my lifetime. That was the major vote of her lifetime. I don't think about - Edwards has been helped by running around, I made a mistake and I apologize. I think she's politically, she's on the right course and she takes her hits. But don't start apologizing and graveling because they'll start beating you up.
MADDOW: She's on a political road to hell here and she's got two bad choices to choose between.
BUCHANAN: She looks pretty good (INAUDIBLE).
MADDOW: But saying I couldn't have known that Bush would go to war is not the better of the two choices.
OLBERMANN: Hold on. Hey. Hold on. I've got 45 seconds and, Pat, I'm going to put you in your nightmare position and Hillary Clinton's nightmare position. You're her adviser on this. How does she answer that question if she doesn't say, I made a mistake?
BUCHANAN: She does exactly what she's doing. She says, here's why I voted the way I voted. We had the information we were given. We weren't given all the correct facts. I voted correctly, I believed, on the information I was given. And Bush did it. And he's responsible. And stay with it.
But let me tell you, when you start going out there and say, I made a mistake on the biggest vote of my life and you start apologizing for it, who wants to elect somebody that did that?
OLBERMANN: As I was once asked by Steven Colbert, have you ever made a mistake on the air? And I said, yes. And he said, how do I know you're not making a mistake on the air right now?
Air America's Rachel Maddow and MSNBC's Pat Buchanan, great. Thanks to you both. And we'll see you again on Super Tuesday.
BUCHANAN: Take it easy, chief (ph).
MADDOW: Indeed.
BUCHANAN: OK.
OLBERMANN: Coming up, tonight's debate as seen through the eyes of the top strategists. Mark Penn and David Axelrod join us. Reaction from both camps. The reaction on the blogosphere, The Net, Huffington Post, Talking Post Memo, Crooks and Liars and their leading participants all here. You are watching Countdown's special coverage of tonight's 18th Democratic debate from the Kodak Theater in Hollywood, California, in front of a live audience.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: Barack Obama raised $32 million in the first 30 days of January. Tomorrow he will get one of John Edwards' key endorsements from the Transportation Workers Union. Did he get anywhere with the first one-on-one debate in the Democratic nominating process? There was a lot of policy, there was a lot of information, was there any distinction? Ahead on our special, the post-debate reaction from both campaigns. That's next, this is Countdown.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I respect Senator Clinton's record. I think it's a terrific record. But I also believe that the skills that I have are the ones that are needed right now to move the country forward, otherwise I wouldn't be running for president of the United States of America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Countdown's special coverage of the Democratic debate continues. And joining us now from the Kodak Theatre in Hollywood, David Axelrod, the chief strategist for Senator Barack Obama.
Thank you for your tonight, sir.
DAVID AXELROD, OBAMA CHIEF STRATEGIST: Good to be with you, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Incredibly thorough by both candidates, I think you would agree, incredibly policy-heavy, incredibly unified in terms of the Democratic Party. But what were the distinctions between the candidates? They both looked like winners to me?
AXELROD: Well, I think that there were some areas of disagreement. I think there were some areas of disagreement on health care at the beginning of the debate that were pretty clear. They have a difference over whether we should mandate people to buy health care policies, even if they can't afford it. Senator Obama says no, Senator Clinton says yes.
But the biggest, I think, difference, Keith, came over the issue over Iraq. And Senator Clinton, still, after 17 debates, has a hard time explaining why she reposed her trust in George Bush on this war and how she somehow believed that this wasn't a vote for war, when the resolution itself was called a Resolution to Authorize Military Action Against Iraq.
So you know, I don't - I thought that was an interesting 20 minutes. But overall, I think what they saw in Obama is someone who is ready to lead this country and lead it forward, bring it together, take it in a new direction. And you know, I think it was a very positive night for us.
OLBERMANN: To that answer that Senator Clinton gave, it certainly got a lot of response to those of us watching here that there was fear in her circles, among her advisers that she had given that authorization vote, that there was fear that somehow Saddam Hussein wasn't going stand having his megalomaniac crown taken from him by Osama bin Laden.
Had you heard anything like that before? Was the one head-scratcher for those of us watching here?
AXELROD: No. As I said, I think that those 20 minutes did not illuminate her decision-making during that period. And as Senator Obama said, it really isn't a matter of what she did then. I mean, the fact that she still doesn't acknowledge it is a mistake is problematical. But it really does give you an insight into how these two people thing.
Senator Obama gave a very trenchant analysis back in 2002 as to why this war would be a mistake. He predicted with chilling accuracy that we would end up in the situation we did and it would have a deleterious effect in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, make us less safe. And Senator Clinton is still trying to justify that decision.
So in terms of judging these two people as commanders-in-chief, people who are going to lead American foreign policy, that is an important exchange.
OLBERMANN: David, was there to any degree a sense going into this that you might as well have your candidate address issues that will come up in the general election to begin the actual presidential campaign now, because a couple of those answers sounded like they might be palatable, not merely to people in the middle, but even to people on the right?
Senator Obama said of Iraq, I want to see this mission completed honorably, which could have been something - though obviously it means something entirely different, it could have been something Richard Nixon said about Vietnam. But the second thing was about this issue of learning English for any illegal immigrants who want to achieve citizenship here, which was echoed to some less degree by Senator Clinton's answer.
Was this partially a debate that was designed to sell both of these candidates to the general election audience?
AXELROD: Keith, actually he has been saying that throughout this campaign. That - on immigration, he has always said that he thought that one of the conditions for people who wanted to make the transition from illegal status to legal status was not just to pay fines, but also to learn English.
In terms of the war, you know, leaving honorably doesn't necessarily mean - just doesn't conflict with leaving swiftly. He wants to get out as quickly as we possibly can. And I think he believes that we have to get out in order to compel the Iraqis to take charge of their own destiny and come to a political accommodation.
So his position hasn't changed at all. We do have big differences with John McCain, however, who wants to be there for 100 years - or said he wouldn't mind it. So I think we're going to have great debate with Senator McCain in the fall.
OLBERMANN: David Axelrod, who is obviously already preparing for that debate, Mr. Obama's chief strategist, thanks for stopping by with us, from the spin room at the Kodak Theatre.
AXELROD: Thanks, Keith. Good to be with you.
OLBERMANN: Good to be with you.
So that is the take on tonight's festivities from the Obama side of the equation. Up next, the Hillary Clinton campaign and its chief strategist, Mark Penn, will join us.
And later, analysis of the Democratic race as it now stands, from Rachel Maddow and Pat Buchanan. This is Countdown's continuing coverage of the Democratic debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: So clearly, we are both dedicated to doing the best we can to win the nomination. But there's no doubt we will have a unified Democratic Party. We will go in to the November election prepared to win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: And that was heard throughout the night at the Kodak Theatre in Hollywood. We rejoin you with Countdown's special coverage of the aftermath of this 18th Democratic debate. And joining me now from the spin room at the Kodak, Mark Penn, Senator Clinton's chief strategist.
Mark, thanks for your time tonight.
MARK PENN, CLINTON CHIEF STRATEGIST: Thank you.
OLBERMANN: Deep, convincing arguments by both candidates, subtleties and nuances of heavy duty policy issues that didn't bore, that did have shades of difference between the two candidates, a lot of excellent back and forth, and almost a love-in quality to it.
But as I asked your counterpart, Mr. Axelrod, where were the distinctions between those two candidates?
PENN: I think it was a very strong debate for Senator Clinton. I think she again showed that she's ready on day one to be president of the United States and carry out the duties of commander-in-chief. I think it's very important that she really stands for universal health care, a plan that covers each and every American without any exceptions.
And I think that's a very important difference between the two candidates. It's a fundamental Democratic principle. I think she was very strong in her belief that we need comprehensive immigration reform and that we've got to do something about this dreadful economic situation that we've got here as well as get our troops out of Iraq.
OLBERMANN: About the subject of Iraq, the only time that I did not follow what was happening from either was her answer invoking a reference to the megalomania of Saddam Hussein as being part of the - and a sort of some sort of megalomania contest between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein as a component in her decision to vote yes on the authorization bill that gave President Bush the powers that he exercised to such great detriment to this country in that one. Do you have a further explanation of what that answer was actually about?
PENN: Well, I think she was really just commenting that previously Saddam Hussein had done a number of things, including using poison gas on his own people. And that those were all factors in her decision that she made to go ahead and to give authorization to the president and that authorization, as she said, was misused by President Bush. And that if she knew then the facts that he knows now, she would not have voted the same way.
But we have to look forward, as she said. Who - as the commander-in-chief, who is ready to pull out the troops that we have there responsibly, to reestablish relations around the world and to deal with the dictators and other influences around the world that we have to pursue aggressive diplomacy against. And I think that's Senator Clinton.
OLBERMANN: Mark, the wild card, or the change in this race since the last time your candidate and Mr. Obama met is obviously the departure of Senator Edwards from this campaign. Was there something in your candidate's performance tonight that was specifically tailored to or you think would have a specific impact on those voters who were supporting John Edwards and are now looking for a new place to live?
PENN: Well, I hope the voters of Senator Edwards will very seriously consider coming over to Senator Clinton. I think that she shares the same kind of passion for many of the issues that Senator Edwards did. She has been fighting life-long fights, starting with working for the Children's Defense Fund, on issues of the poor.
And I think as you saw, both Senator Edwards and her had a similar health care plan that in fact covers each and every American. And that was a fundamental principle to Senator Edwards, and it's a fundamental principle to Senator Clinton.
OLBERMANN: Last question, sir, was it deliberate on your part of the equation here to have this be a perfectly well-mannered and almost non-confrontational debate? Was this a healing moment for the Democrat Party and was it intentional?
PENN: I think the senator felt that tonight's debate was really a conversation, a conversation with the American people who are going to make a very serious choice with some very big stakes here with the economy, two wars, and needing to elect somebody who can both beat the Republicans and be commander-in-chief. She wanted to have that conversation. I think that the conversation we had. And I think also she's going to continue it Monday night in a national town hall as she announced in the debate.
OLBERMANN: Got the plug in on two networks. Mark Penn, chief strategist for Hillary Clinton and Senator Clinton's presidential campaign, thank you for your time, sir.
PENN: Thank you.
OLBERMANN: Coming up, the reaction to tonight's debate from the leading voices in the blogosphere. We will go to the net. Will tonight's debate provide a significant momentum swing for either of these candidates going into those extraordinarily crucial 22 Super Tuesday contests?
Also, Pat Buchanan and Rachel Maddow join us. What was the hottest issue of the night? You're watching this special edition of Countdown on MSNBC.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: And with all due respect, we have a president who basically ran as the CEO/MBA president, and look what we got. I'm not too happy about the results.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Let me just also point out that Mitt Romney has not gotten a very good return on his investment during this presidential campaign.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: The answer to questions about businessmen or CEOs as president and the lack of Democratic experience running companies pretty well slam-dunked by both of the candidates tonight as we continue with Countdown's special post-debate coverage.
And joining me now, a panel of people who keep their mouse on the pulse of the netroots, or the mice on the - if we prefer that. Arianna Huffington, of course, founder of Huffington Post and author of "On Becoming Fearless," who is with me here in the studio. Josh Marshall, the publisher of Talking Points Memo, TPMMuckraker, and TPMElection Central. And John Amato, creator, managing editor of Crooks and Liars who attended tonight's debate and is still there. And I thank you all for being with us.
And, John, I'll start with you, because you are still there. There were a lot of slam dunks in here and there were a lot of applause lines and there were a lot of laughs. Who is getting the live and online love after this debate?
JOHN AMATO, CROOKS AND LIARS: Well, I'll tell you, Keith, it has really been a great debate. The people are alive, it's crackling in this auditorium. It was palpable, the electricity as the candidates were coming on to the stage. So there is a lot of love both ways. The Obama fans were screaming outside, they were just as loud inside. And also the Hillary camp was huge. So it's quite - you know, it is broken up, but it's - you can hear the pandemonium behind me, I'm sure. It's a pretty split even group, I would say.
OLBERMANN: Josh Marshall, from Talking Points Memo, from TPMMuckraker, from TPMElection Central, is that your read on this, too? I mean, I asked Mark Penn and David Axelrod the same question. There seemed to be great substance, there seemed to be great nuance. There seemed to be conviviality. There seemed to be party unison. But was there anything in here that really separated these candidates by any major distance?
JOSH MARSHALL, TALKING POINTS MEMO: I mean, I agree, it was shockingly substantive for a debate. You know, I thought both of them really had a pretty good debate. I thought that Hillary was a little stronger in the first half, Obama in the second half, especially because of Iraq.
You know, I think what this debate showed is that both campaigns went into this seeing the trajectory they are on going into Super Tuesday, basically liking where they are, not wanting to rock the boat. So, no, it didn't - there were not a lot of contrasts. I think the one thing it came back to was on Iraq.
And even though it was very convivial and very gentle, I thought that Obama did pretty well on that. Because for this audience, Hillary Clinton just doesn't have a great set of facts to argue. So on balance I would give it mildly to Iraq. But I thought both of them did pretty well, and that is because both campaigns are on a trajectory that they are comfortable with, and they didn't want anything unexpected to happen.
OLBERMANN: And we had very little, Arianna, that seemed to be unexpected. What - did anything come out at you as the decisive, a faux pas, a great victory, a decisive leap?
ARIANNA HUFFINGTON, THE HUFFINGTON POST: There was no faux pas from either one. But Hillary had the best line of the night. The one about it took a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush, it will take a Clinton to clean up after the second Bush. That was the biggest applause line.
I feel that Obama had the best kind of, sadly, powerful line when he said "right from day one," contrasting the "ready from day one" that we can all sing along to. And also what Josh said about Iraq, I mean, that is the most important moment of the debate for me, because no matter what Hillary Clinton says, she cannot get away from that vote. She cannot get away from the fact that she did not vote for the Carl Levin amendment.
I was amazing that actually that came up in the debate like that. Because it is the one decision that kind of throws into question her claim that she really was voting to authorize more inspections rather than going to war.
OLBERMANN: And I want to ask each of you this question, and we'll go
back in the reverse order that we got here. So, Arianna, you start. That
may be that's it. Did she get deeper into the woods of trying to explain Iraq and not get out? Because it seemed as if bringing in the megalomania of Saddam Hussein, I still don't know. And I don't think...
HUFFINGTON: And then Mark Penn didn't answer it for you.
OLBERMANN: I don't think he knew what it was either. Where was she going, and the only thing that it did seem was that they seemed to be comfortable to some degree rationalizing the decision. Well, it could have turned out the right, the odds, in retrospect, are obviously a million-to-one. But we didn't know that then. Has there been some sort of shift in the Clinton campaign to rationalize that decision?
HUFFINGTON: Well, not didn't she explain it, but I think she did go deeper into the woods, because by the end, she was saying that the basically execution was wrong, which is completely the wrong argument for a Democratic primary, because the whole thing here is not that the execution was wrong. Even John McCain agrees that the execution was wrong.
OLBERMANN: Right. That is a McCain or a Romney answer.
HUFFINGTON: You know, that is like - exactly. Everybody agrees on that. Rumsfeld agrees on that. So the whole point here is that Democrats almost universally now will say that it was a mistake for those of them, the 75 senators who voted for the war.
And what is interesting is the journey. She went from being one of the 77 senators to vote for the war to being one of 14 senators to vote against the funding of war. And there's no way she can explain that transition except for political expediency.
OLBERMANN: Or if you just come out and say, no, that was really wrong of me in the first chance and I didn't do...
HUFFINGTON: But she has down that.
OLBERMANN: Well, then, Josh, where is that in the list of items that most concerns the Web, the blogosphere? Where is the online outrage about that? Will it be tamped up as a result of this or tamped down as a result of this debate?
MARSHALL: Well, look, Iraq has been a key issue online and offline in this entire country, since 2003. And you know, I think that was - it was almost sort of a touching moment in my mind, because I thought Hillary in debating terms did pretty well coming with explanations and rationalizations. But at the end of the day, she just didn't have the set of facts in hand that Obama did. And that made it - she just couldn't overcome that.
I guess the point that I would point out is that if you're a political junkie like we are here, you've seen them go over this a million times. You know sort of the basic argument that each one of them make. But there are a lot of people who are going to vote on Tuesday who are watching this who probably have not seen these earlier debates.
So this was really their introduction to this issue for them. And on those terms, I think he came off pretty well. And again, I think that's - it's really key for people like us who, you know, live and breathe politics, don't have another life otherwise to remember that. This the first time for a lot of people.
OLBERMANN: That's right. A lot of people are saying, now which one's last name is Clinton and which one's last name is Obama? John Amato, in the theater, was that feeling there extant, that the Iraq issue may be the separator in these two candidates and that maybe that's the one thing that you wouldn't give an individual grade of A to is Hillary Clinton's answers and the new versions, the new mutations of those answers that we heard tonight?
AMATO: Yes, you know, look, Hillary is never going say that that was a wrong vote. She has taken a tough stand on it. I think she said it in every debate that with the information that she has had, she made the vote that she thought (INAUDIBLE).
And we all know that she's not coming off that. Because she thinks it's a weakness. And of course, in the blogosphere there's a lot of animosity towards that vote. And it's a position that she's had trouble dancing around. And I think Arianna and Josh make that point.
But all - you know, if you're a Hillary fan, you'll accept that and move on. And you'll also notice that when Wolf kept hammering on her about being a naive vote, the audience started booing Wolf. I think that she got a chance to explain it and weaved and bobbed and weaved, but then Wolf just kept piling on. And it actually turned the audience against Wolf instead of focusing on Hillary's question and her answer.
OLBERMANN: It will not be the last time nor the first time that the moderator gets in the way, if that's indeed what happened. John Amato, stand by. Josh Marshall, stand by. Arianna Huffington, stand by.
Does tonight's faceoff in Hollywood provide a boost to either of these candidates as we look at Super Tuesday? What has actually changed? Speaking of that, the John Edwards factor, what impact will his supporters have now in the outcome of the national primaries? Our special coverage of the Democratic debate continues here on MSNBC.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: After the first one-on-one debate of the Democratic campaign, the super two head to Super Tuesday, did either gain the support of those who had been supporting John Edwards? We'll get the reactions of our Web masters and Web mistress, if you will, when Countdown's special coverage of the Democratic debate in Los Angeles continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: Of course tonight was all about tomorrow, or to be precise, five days from now when Democrats choose between senators Clinton and Obama in 22 state contests that have come to be known collectively as Super Tuesday. Super because the extra ingredient is American Samoa.
Right now we continue to look online for a look ahead to most likely the most decisive day in this race. Still with us: Arianna Huffington of huffingtonpost.com; Josh Marshall of talkingpointsmemo.com; and John Amato of crooksandliars.com.
Let's start on where the Edwards factor goes now that Edwards has gone. Arianna, did anything happen in here that would, in your estimation or the estimation of your bloggers and readers, attract the people who were from Edwards to either Clinton or Obama?
HUFFINGTON: I think something did happen. There were no fireworks, but there were two very distinct styles of leadership presented here. You had Hillary Clinton, who is passionate about electronic medical records. She's a realist, a pragmatist. She's a brilliant woman who is a wonk, who is going to be disciplined. She's going to give us electronic medical records, I have no doubt about that.
And then there was Obama, and he talked about bringing in new people to the process. And he talked about transformational leadership really. You know, interesting, even about the war, he said, I don't want just to end the war, I want to end the mindset that got us into war. So these are two very different kinds of leadership.
I think a lot of the Edwards people would be drawn to that passionate, transformational leadership. A lot of them also would want to actually end poverty. So it depends who they will think will do that. But I would tend to think that given that Bill Clinton did not exactly end poverty during eight great years of prosperity, he marginally kind of reduced, if they want something fundamentally different, they would go for Obama.
OLBERMANN: Josh, anything from what you tell from your community where the Edwards people might wind up and what, if anything, they heard today that might influence them in either direction?
MARSHALL: Well, the one thing I thought is, you know, John Edwards got out at just the wrong time, just before he was acclaimed a Democratic saint by both candidates. You know, I think - I don't really know. And I don't think we've seen from the polls yet how they're going break.
I haven't got - I mean, the one thing all the Edwards supporters that e-mail me from the site, you know, their big thing was John Edwards. They were really, really committed to him. So it's kind of hard to figure.
The one thing I would say is just that his campaign was so oppositional, and in a lot of cases so oppositional towards what he saw Hillary Clinton as representing, that it's not so much that I see them naturally going to Obama, but I don't think we know.
OLBERMANN: John Amato at the Kodak Theatre, any impression on this? Because obviously the first thing that was said when I guess he won the coin toss and when he was allowed to go and speak first, the first thing Senator Obama did, even before his first kumbaya moment with Hillary Clinton, the first thing was to invoke John Edwards and to talk about what a great campaign. There was more referencing of John Edwards in the first minute of a debate than there had been in the previous 17 debates.
AMATO: Well, I couldn't agree with you more, Keith. It was - as soon as they took the stage, it was John Edwards was just an incredible human being. And of course, I think that Josh also hit on it. We really don't know where the votes at this point are going fall.
You know, you could see a big difference between the Republicans and the Democrats, because as soon as Rudy was done, it was an interesting picture of Rudy with Arnie, with McCain, he was like a little lost puppy, immediately giving his votes to McCain. And you don't see that with John.
I think John is trying to - he wants his agenda - you know, he wants to make sure that poverty rules and that what he believes in, both candidates are going to carry on. So he's being kind of cagey with where he is going and if he's actually going to even endorse anyone. We're not sure of that. And so it was very fascinating that that was the opening salvo fired by Barack. And I guess more shall be revealed come Tuesday.
OLBERMANN: Well, yes, maybe. And maybe not. I mean, of course, we're still waiting for Bill Richardson and Joe Biden and Chris Dodd to endorse anybody, and they haven't done that. Maybe the cards will be held to the vest and you let the voters decide. What a concept. John Amato of Crooks and Liars, at the scene at the Kodak Theatre, my great thanks to you. Also to Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo, thank you for coming in. Arianna Huffington of the Huffington Post, always a pleasure to see you, especially in person.
HUFFINGTON: Thank you, Keith.
OLBERMANN: The Democratic debate may be over, but the fight over the issues lives on. Pat Buchanan and Rachel Maddow, our MSNBC political analysts, hit the hot issue from the Hollywood - well, from the Hollywood faceoff, next on Countdown. And it won't be all those cutaways of celebrities either.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: We should not use immigration as a tactic to divide. Instead we should pull the country together to get this economy back on track. That's what I intend to do as president of the United States of America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Something a little different at the Democratic debate tonight, immigration as an issue for the Democrats to debate, the two remaining ones. This is our continuing coverage in the aftermath of this, the 18th Democratic debate. And we're now joined by MSNBC political analyst Pat Buchanan and Rachel Maddow.
And let's talk about this issue of Democrats addressing, to some degree - and I imagine Pat will think it was a very small one, to some degree the issue of immigration. Pat, start us off.
PAT BUCHANAN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think that Obama had a good moment on it when he said we ought not to scapegoat these folks. It was emotional. But the fact that the question was asked by an African-American, and she was talking about the - as I recall, asking about the immigrants taking away these jobs. And on that I thought Hillary won the debate for this reason.
She showed empathy for the person and she also showed realism. Because the truth is, with the 12 million to 14 million illegals she mentioned in the country, most of them very low wage workers, they do dramatically increase competition for low wage jobs. And so I thought Hillary won the immigration debate basically in terms of reaching out into Barack's constituency and into the poor working class folks. So I think she won that section.
RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: I think she won it in terms of political aggressiveness, certainly. That was actually the one kind of shocking moment for me in the debate. I thought that Hillary seemed very bad tonight on Iraq. But on that immigration issue, that's the one other time when I made notes.
I looked down at my notes and I said, Hillary says that African-Americans should scapegoat Latino immigrants for taking their jobs. She specifically said, African-Americans - she referenced a personal interaction with an African-American man who had lost his job and believed it was because of Latino immigrants.
Barack Obama had said, let's not scapegoat anybody, African-Americans were having high unemployment rates before the current wave of immigrants that we know we're talking about here. And Hillary Clinton essentially said, well, I don't know why we shouldn't scapegoat them? I mean, it wasn't in that blunt a term, but it was - she was putting a wedge between Latinos and blacks.
BUCHANAN: But the truth is that if you ask African-Americans, many of them are more militant than white conservatives on the immigration issue because they're living in these communities and jobs are being taken. And there is a real turf war, if you will, over jobs and opportunities.
And the real world that is happening. And Hillary is showing that awareness. I think that is going to stand her in good stead. And I'm surprised. It showed courage, because it also - I guess you're going find some Hispanics to say just what you're saying, Rachel, she is scapegoating.
MADDOW: Yes, well, I don't think it showed courage. I think it showed cravenness. I mean, anytime you have got communities that are hard hit, and when you look at - like if you compare the start of Bush's term and Latino and African-American families and their incomes, and how they have dropped so much more than the average American family's incomes have dropped over Bush's presidency, when you've got two communities that are hard hit, that are both essentially at the bottom of the economic ladder, it's great place to drive a wedge. That's political dynamite right there. You can always turn them against each other. I was just shocked that she did it.
OLBERMANN: Let me interject something here to try to get a little bit bigger picture on this. Was it a surprise the hear two Democratic candidates for the presidency of the United States both say that for illegal immigrants in this country to gain citizenship, one said they would have to learn English, and the other said, we are going to have to help them learn English? They seemed to be fairly conservative - if it's a very, very subtle slice of the pie, Pat, that was a fairly conservative point of view for two Democrats, was it not?
BUCHANAN: It is, indeed. It is, indeed. And of course, when you get into the general election, I think Barack Obama's position about the driver's licenses and things, as we saw up in New York State, where 70 percent of New Yorkers turned against Governor Spitzer, and Hillary Rodham Clinton had to spin on the issue in a matter of weeks - and I thought she was effective also, Keith when she came back, Barack Obama said you had two positions.
And she came back and said, yes, and you were asked your position, it took you 60 seconds and you couldn't think of one. And he did not come back and respond. I thought she was crisp and in command.
On the first section, on the national health insurance, she has got clarity there. And on the second section, I do agree Barack Obama raised himself up back to the pedestal. And I think a couple of those answers on Iraq were terrific from the national standpoint.
OLBERMANN: We're going look at that intensely in a moment, literally in a moment. But, Rachel, just finish us off on the immigration issue and the subject of teaching English mandatorily.
MADDOW: I would just say right now that that sounds good, because I think the country has kind of accepted the Republican talking points and framing on this. But right now, Eliot Spitzer would probably beat any Republican candidate for president. Immigration has not been a great electoral issue for the Republicans, even as good as their talking points sound.
BUCHANAN: You wait.
(LAUGHTER)
MADDOW: Sure, Pat, I'm looking forward to it.
OLBERMANN: I just thought it was extraordinary that they were willing to take any kind of position that might be controversial at the extreme left of their constituencies. And that's why it's noteworthy for that, never mind the nuance that followed that both of you have discussed. As I said, literally, stand by. We're going to reset here at the top of the hour as Countdown's the coverage of the electoral debate continues now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END
Guests: Eugene Robinson, David Axelrod, Mark Penn, John Amato, Josh Marshall, Arianna Huffington
KEITH OLBERMANN, MSNBC ANCHOR: At the top of the hour is Countdown's coverage of the electoral debate continues now. This is Countdown's continuing coverage of the Democratic debate. Good evening. I'm Keith Olbermann.
And in the end, tonight's Democratic debate at the Kodak Theater in Hollywood, California, was not "American Idol." It was not the Academy Awards. It was not even last week's slum lord slug fest in South Carolina. And our fifth story in the Countdown, the Democrat Party, not to mention the American democracy, should be all the better for it. The candidates finding more common ground than engaging in verbal fisticuffs with each other.
Although a handshake at the outset would have been nice. There was the hug and almost kiss at the end. Facing only each other for the first time in the campaign, it would be their last debate before Super Tuesday. Super being perhaps just the word to describe the substance of their policy discussions, including how they would bring troops home from Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will do everything I can to get as many of our troops out as quickly as possibly, taking into account all of these contingencies that we're going to have to contend with once we're in charge and once we can get into the Pentagon to figure out what's really there and what's going on.
WOLF BLITZER, MODERATOR: Right. You can't make a commitment, though, that 16 months after your inauguration would be enough time?
CLINTON: I certainly hope it will be. And I said I hope to have nearly all of them out within a year.
BLITZER: Go ahead.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, you know, I think it is important for us to be as careful getting out as we were careless getting in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: The candidates also addressing a question of taxes. They wouldn't have even had to threaten to raise to be called tax and spend liberals by the Republicans, rolling back the current administration's tax cut should be enough to get them that honor. And both candidates tonight fighting back that charge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I don't think the Republicans are going to be in a real strong position to argue fiscal responsibility when they've added $4 trillion or $5 trillion worth of national debt. You know, I am happy to have that argument. If John McCain, for example, is the nominee, I'd respect that John McCain, in the first two rounds of Bush tax cuts, said, it is irresponsible that we have never before cut taxes at the same time as we're going into war. And somewhere along the line, the straight talk express lost some wheels and now he is in favor of extending Bush tax cuts that went to some of the wealthiest Americans who don't need them and were not even asking for them.
CLINTON: It's just really important to underscore here that we will go back to the tax rates we had before George Bush became president. And my memory is people did really well during that time period and they will keep doing really well.
OBAMA: They were. That's right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: This was Hollywood. This was the site both of the "American Idol" finals and, of course, of the Oscars, back when they still used to have the Oscars. And if you did not watch this, you missed, again, more cutaways of celebrities in the crowd.
There's a point to this. Stevie Wonder was there. Bradley Whitford, Lauren Holly, Jason Alexander, Rob Reiner, Diane Keaton, Pierce Brosnan, Steven Spielberg, Ed Helms, Kate Capshaw, Brandy, Alfrey Woodard, America Ferrara, Fisher Stevens, Isaiah Washington where there, Topher Grace and, at the end, Fran Drescher. The most important part of this, of course, the reason we're mentioning it is, they were all in the box seats. They were all down at ground level. We are told that Congresswoman Jane Harman), one of the most significant people in American politics, certainly in California politics, was seated in the mezzanine. If you've never lived in Los Angeles, that was it in a nutshell.
We're now going to analyze what we saw. Eugene Robinson, columnist and associate editor at the "Washington Post" is good enough to be back with us.
And, Gene, with some time to reflect on this, did anybody win? Was there a winner? And I'm not asking this to try to elicit one answer or the other. I just don't know.
EUGENE ROBINSON, "WASHINGTON POST": I'm not really sure either. I think there were narrow victories on various issues. I think Obama wins on Iraq. I thought she - maybe Pat Buchanan is right, that she won on immigration or she was clearer on immigration. There wasn't much of a decisive victory by either side in this debate. There was a lot more agreement than disagreement. I'm sure you noticed that one thing they're in complete agreement on is what a fine human being John Edwards is. And the fact that fine human beings...
OLBERMANN: Now that he's gone.
ROBINSON: Right, exactly. And all his supporters are fine human beings, too, by the way. And they might want to consider supporting either Obama or Clinton now.
But it was - you know, I wouldn't call it a lovefest, despite the hug at the end. I didn't get a sense of true love between the two of them. But they were respectful and it seemed to be two campaigns who thought they were in pretty good shape right now.
OLBERMANN: The question was asked at the end, and it was a note that was there from the beginning, that looked to some degree like a ticket. Was there some self-protective measure invoked here? Because we've had such acrimony. And as we discussed earlier, we love to see the acrimony. Then there isn't any acrimony. We wonder where it is. It happens. We get all upset about it. The acrimony wasn't there even to the point where several times there were subtle jabs about flip-flopping, especially on the issue of immigration, on both of them and they wound up agreeing that it was a tough issue and maybe every once in a while you would flip-flop.
ROBINSON: Right. Right. So, aw, it was nothing, you know, just a little flip flop. They - the acrimony was just like in the last couple of days. I mean, Obama has been going after Hillary Clinton with pretty tough language yesterday and earlier today. So this was kind of a sudden flowering of their mutual respect and friendship.
And clearly was a considered decision by both camps to be that nice. I took them at their word that neither is thinking about taking second place on a ticket at this point. And I think they both think that they can still win this thing and that they're set up to win this thing and this was a night to chill out a little bit.
OLBERMANN: Yes. Well, if there's bloodletting, it will come later, I guess. I guess they're willing to go into Super Tuesday allowing the other one to survive.
Eugene Robinson...
ROBINSON: Well, unless...
OLBERMANN: Go ahead.
ROBINSON: I was just saying, unless tomorrow the knives come at you.
OLBERMANN: Exactly. With a live audience, with people actually seeing what they're saying, they're not going to say anything like that.
Eugene Robinson with the "Washington Post." Always a pleasure, sir.
ROBINSON: Good to be here, Keith.
OLBERMANN: All right. Turning now to MSNBC political analyst Pat Buchanan and Rachel Maddow. And when last we discussed things with them, the subject of Iraq had come up, which might have been maybe the biggest area of dispute between the two and for reasons that have been long present.
But, Rachel, I'm wondering, do you think Hillary Clinton answered any of those people in the Democratic Party who are literally holding her vote in 2002 - late 2002, early 2003 her votes and her stance against her. Did she convince anybody to go with her? And if she did not, what can she do about a, winning the nomination, and, b, winning the election without them?
RACHEL MADDOW: She made it considerably worse for herself tonight on Iraq. And I think that's why I would say, if I had to pick a winner, I would say she lost the debate because of Iraq. Previously when Obama has pointing out that he was against the war when she was voting for the use of force, she's counterpunched by pointing out his softer statements earlier on in the war and the fact that he's voted to continue funding it since he's been in the Senate.
Tonight she didn't counterpunch. And instead she decided to explain that her vote in 2002 - when she voted that way was a complete shock to her that Bush used that use of force authorization as an excuse to go to war.
OLBERMANN: As a use of force.
MADDOW: Yes, exactly. I remember vividly that night in October, 2002, driving around and around and around in my Ford because I didn't have a TV and somebody was broadcasting those Senate floor speeches. And when she started to give her speech, I literally - and I don't mean to be dramatic here - I literally remember crying as I was driving because she was voting for the war.
We all knew she was voting for the war. She was voting for the war. She knew she was voting for the war. It's one thing to be wrong. It's another thing to go back and say, how could I have known? I was so surprised? It insults me personally for her to have make that case tonight. And I think it insults all of us who remember that far back or can Google it tonight.
OLBERMANN: Pat.
PAT BUCHANAN: I'm not insulted, but I will say I thought that was the strongest - look, Barack Obama did two things tonight. The most important thing, I think, he got back up - he got away from the Rezco/Wal-Mart nonsense and got back up as sort of an inspirational leader. And you got all of that race/gender stuff out of there.
Secondly, on Iraq, he was very good. He had two outstanding lines. He said, the important thing is to be right on day one, which goes right at her. And the second line, which I thought was a very good line, we've not only got to end the war, we've got to end the mindset that brought on this war.
And I think those two are really telling lines and maybe because I happen to agree with the position, but I thought they were the best lines that Barack got tonight besides - also, let me add one thing. I think his humor came back.
OLBERMANN: Yes.
BUCHANAN: And it's a very - it's a soft humor about the wheels coming off McCain and Romney's investment looks like it's going a little bad. And you can smile with his humor. And so I think, in this sense, he really helped himself, especially in the second half of the debate. In the first half, I thought Hillary was basically winning on points.
OLBERMANN: Where, Rachel, was Hillary's answer on any of the three occasions when Barack Obama said, I've always been against the war? We've seen her husband say, this is a fairy tale. We know what sort of trouble happened as a result of that. But she seemed to just punt on each of those three occasions.
MADDOW: I think that she, for some reason, seemed intimidated to give that standard counterpunch that she's been giving. I mean Barack Obama is not perfect on the war. He said tonight that - he makes the case eloquently that, you know, it's important to have had the judgement to see it was wrong from the beginning. But then he says stuff like, it's important to me to complete the mission and we need to show the Iraqis we're serious. You know, what part of a 3rd Infantry Division doesn't make us look serious?
There's a lot of ways in which he's showing he doesn't get the fundamental problem that Iraq is for America right now. He's not perfect on the war. She could hit him on that. I don't know why she isn't especially when it's probably the worst thing about her record for the Democratic base.
BUCHANAN: Well, the reason she doesn't do that is, you don't fight somebody on your weakest ground. In my judgment, and I think this is her weakest ground. I do think she could have at least made the case that her husband did make fairly, that after speaking against the war, he voted for it, for it, for it. But again, when you get more and more deeply into that, I mean, Hillary has an indefensible position for the audience she's courting. So the sooner she gets off that, the better.
MADDOW: She needs to say that vote in 2002 was wrong and stop say...
BUCHANAN: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
MADDOW: No, listen, what she's saying - but listen to the alternative.
She's saying, I had no idea Bush would use that as an excuse to go to war.
That makes her sound like an idiot.
BUCHANAN: Wait a minute. Look, she - why would you say - if you say that my vote was wrong, I made a mistake, what you're saying is the most important vote of my public life, I made a mistake and it brought on the biggest strategic disaster in my lifetime. That was the major vote of her lifetime. I don't think about - Edwards has been helped by running around, I made a mistake and I apologize. I think she's politically, she's on the right course and she takes her hits. But don't start apologizing and graveling because they'll start beating you up.
MADDOW: She's on a political road to hell here and she's got two bad choices to choose between.
BUCHANAN: She looks pretty good (INAUDIBLE).
MADDOW: But saying I couldn't have known that Bush would go to war is not the better of the two choices.
OLBERMANN: Hold on. Hey. Hold on. I've got 45 seconds and, Pat, I'm going to put you in your nightmare position and Hillary Clinton's nightmare position. You're her adviser on this. How does she answer that question if she doesn't say, I made a mistake?
BUCHANAN: She does exactly what she's doing. She says, here's why I voted the way I voted. We had the information we were given. We weren't given all the correct facts. I voted correctly, I believed, on the information I was given. And Bush did it. And he's responsible. And stay with it.
But let me tell you, when you start going out there and say, I made a mistake on the biggest vote of my life and you start apologizing for it, who wants to elect somebody that did that?
OLBERMANN: As I was once asked by Steven Colbert, have you ever made a mistake on the air? And I said, yes. And he said, how do I know you're not making a mistake on the air right now?
Air America's Rachel Maddow and MSNBC's Pat Buchanan, great. Thanks to you both. And we'll see you again on Super Tuesday.
BUCHANAN: Take it easy, chief (ph).
MADDOW: Indeed.
BUCHANAN: OK.
OLBERMANN: Coming up, tonight's debate as seen through the eyes of the top strategists. Mark Penn and David Axelrod join us. Reaction from both camps. The reaction on the blogosphere, The Net, Huffington Post, Talking Post Memo, Crooks and Liars and their leading participants all here. You are watching Countdown's special coverage of tonight's 18th Democratic debate from the Kodak Theater in Hollywood, California, in front of a live audience.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: Barack Obama raised $32 million in the first 30 days of January. Tomorrow he will get one of John Edwards' key endorsements from the Transportation Workers Union. Did he get anywhere with the first one-on-one debate in the Democratic nominating process? There was a lot of policy, there was a lot of information, was there any distinction? Ahead on our special, the post-debate reaction from both campaigns. That's next, this is Countdown.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I respect Senator Clinton's record. I think it's a terrific record. But I also believe that the skills that I have are the ones that are needed right now to move the country forward, otherwise I wouldn't be running for president of the United States of America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Countdown's special coverage of the Democratic debate continues. And joining us now from the Kodak Theatre in Hollywood, David Axelrod, the chief strategist for Senator Barack Obama.
Thank you for your tonight, sir.
DAVID AXELROD, OBAMA CHIEF STRATEGIST: Good to be with you, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Incredibly thorough by both candidates, I think you would agree, incredibly policy-heavy, incredibly unified in terms of the Democratic Party. But what were the distinctions between the candidates? They both looked like winners to me?
AXELROD: Well, I think that there were some areas of disagreement. I think there were some areas of disagreement on health care at the beginning of the debate that were pretty clear. They have a difference over whether we should mandate people to buy health care policies, even if they can't afford it. Senator Obama says no, Senator Clinton says yes.
But the biggest, I think, difference, Keith, came over the issue over Iraq. And Senator Clinton, still, after 17 debates, has a hard time explaining why she reposed her trust in George Bush on this war and how she somehow believed that this wasn't a vote for war, when the resolution itself was called a Resolution to Authorize Military Action Against Iraq.
So you know, I don't - I thought that was an interesting 20 minutes. But overall, I think what they saw in Obama is someone who is ready to lead this country and lead it forward, bring it together, take it in a new direction. And you know, I think it was a very positive night for us.
OLBERMANN: To that answer that Senator Clinton gave, it certainly got a lot of response to those of us watching here that there was fear in her circles, among her advisers that she had given that authorization vote, that there was fear that somehow Saddam Hussein wasn't going stand having his megalomaniac crown taken from him by Osama bin Laden.
Had you heard anything like that before? Was the one head-scratcher for those of us watching here?
AXELROD: No. As I said, I think that those 20 minutes did not illuminate her decision-making during that period. And as Senator Obama said, it really isn't a matter of what she did then. I mean, the fact that she still doesn't acknowledge it is a mistake is problematical. But it really does give you an insight into how these two people thing.
Senator Obama gave a very trenchant analysis back in 2002 as to why this war would be a mistake. He predicted with chilling accuracy that we would end up in the situation we did and it would have a deleterious effect in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, make us less safe. And Senator Clinton is still trying to justify that decision.
So in terms of judging these two people as commanders-in-chief, people who are going to lead American foreign policy, that is an important exchange.
OLBERMANN: David, was there to any degree a sense going into this that you might as well have your candidate address issues that will come up in the general election to begin the actual presidential campaign now, because a couple of those answers sounded like they might be palatable, not merely to people in the middle, but even to people on the right?
Senator Obama said of Iraq, I want to see this mission completed honorably, which could have been something - though obviously it means something entirely different, it could have been something Richard Nixon said about Vietnam. But the second thing was about this issue of learning English for any illegal immigrants who want to achieve citizenship here, which was echoed to some less degree by Senator Clinton's answer.
Was this partially a debate that was designed to sell both of these candidates to the general election audience?
AXELROD: Keith, actually he has been saying that throughout this campaign. That - on immigration, he has always said that he thought that one of the conditions for people who wanted to make the transition from illegal status to legal status was not just to pay fines, but also to learn English.
In terms of the war, you know, leaving honorably doesn't necessarily mean - just doesn't conflict with leaving swiftly. He wants to get out as quickly as we possibly can. And I think he believes that we have to get out in order to compel the Iraqis to take charge of their own destiny and come to a political accommodation.
So his position hasn't changed at all. We do have big differences with John McCain, however, who wants to be there for 100 years - or said he wouldn't mind it. So I think we're going to have great debate with Senator McCain in the fall.
OLBERMANN: David Axelrod, who is obviously already preparing for that debate, Mr. Obama's chief strategist, thanks for stopping by with us, from the spin room at the Kodak Theatre.
AXELROD: Thanks, Keith. Good to be with you.
OLBERMANN: Good to be with you.
So that is the take on tonight's festivities from the Obama side of the equation. Up next, the Hillary Clinton campaign and its chief strategist, Mark Penn, will join us.
And later, analysis of the Democratic race as it now stands, from Rachel Maddow and Pat Buchanan. This is Countdown's continuing coverage of the Democratic debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: So clearly, we are both dedicated to doing the best we can to win the nomination. But there's no doubt we will have a unified Democratic Party. We will go in to the November election prepared to win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: And that was heard throughout the night at the Kodak Theatre in Hollywood. We rejoin you with Countdown's special coverage of the aftermath of this 18th Democratic debate. And joining me now from the spin room at the Kodak, Mark Penn, Senator Clinton's chief strategist.
Mark, thanks for your time tonight.
MARK PENN, CLINTON CHIEF STRATEGIST: Thank you.
OLBERMANN: Deep, convincing arguments by both candidates, subtleties and nuances of heavy duty policy issues that didn't bore, that did have shades of difference between the two candidates, a lot of excellent back and forth, and almost a love-in quality to it.
But as I asked your counterpart, Mr. Axelrod, where were the distinctions between those two candidates?
PENN: I think it was a very strong debate for Senator Clinton. I think she again showed that she's ready on day one to be president of the United States and carry out the duties of commander-in-chief. I think it's very important that she really stands for universal health care, a plan that covers each and every American without any exceptions.
And I think that's a very important difference between the two candidates. It's a fundamental Democratic principle. I think she was very strong in her belief that we need comprehensive immigration reform and that we've got to do something about this dreadful economic situation that we've got here as well as get our troops out of Iraq.
OLBERMANN: About the subject of Iraq, the only time that I did not follow what was happening from either was her answer invoking a reference to the megalomania of Saddam Hussein as being part of the - and a sort of some sort of megalomania contest between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein as a component in her decision to vote yes on the authorization bill that gave President Bush the powers that he exercised to such great detriment to this country in that one. Do you have a further explanation of what that answer was actually about?
PENN: Well, I think she was really just commenting that previously Saddam Hussein had done a number of things, including using poison gas on his own people. And that those were all factors in her decision that she made to go ahead and to give authorization to the president and that authorization, as she said, was misused by President Bush. And that if she knew then the facts that he knows now, she would not have voted the same way.
But we have to look forward, as she said. Who - as the commander-in-chief, who is ready to pull out the troops that we have there responsibly, to reestablish relations around the world and to deal with the dictators and other influences around the world that we have to pursue aggressive diplomacy against. And I think that's Senator Clinton.
OLBERMANN: Mark, the wild card, or the change in this race since the last time your candidate and Mr. Obama met is obviously the departure of Senator Edwards from this campaign. Was there something in your candidate's performance tonight that was specifically tailored to or you think would have a specific impact on those voters who were supporting John Edwards and are now looking for a new place to live?
PENN: Well, I hope the voters of Senator Edwards will very seriously consider coming over to Senator Clinton. I think that she shares the same kind of passion for many of the issues that Senator Edwards did. She has been fighting life-long fights, starting with working for the Children's Defense Fund, on issues of the poor.
And I think as you saw, both Senator Edwards and her had a similar health care plan that in fact covers each and every American. And that was a fundamental principle to Senator Edwards, and it's a fundamental principle to Senator Clinton.
OLBERMANN: Last question, sir, was it deliberate on your part of the equation here to have this be a perfectly well-mannered and almost non-confrontational debate? Was this a healing moment for the Democrat Party and was it intentional?
PENN: I think the senator felt that tonight's debate was really a conversation, a conversation with the American people who are going to make a very serious choice with some very big stakes here with the economy, two wars, and needing to elect somebody who can both beat the Republicans and be commander-in-chief. She wanted to have that conversation. I think that the conversation we had. And I think also she's going to continue it Monday night in a national town hall as she announced in the debate.
OLBERMANN: Got the plug in on two networks. Mark Penn, chief strategist for Hillary Clinton and Senator Clinton's presidential campaign, thank you for your time, sir.
PENN: Thank you.
OLBERMANN: Coming up, the reaction to tonight's debate from the leading voices in the blogosphere. We will go to the net. Will tonight's debate provide a significant momentum swing for either of these candidates going into those extraordinarily crucial 22 Super Tuesday contests?
Also, Pat Buchanan and Rachel Maddow join us. What was the hottest issue of the night? You're watching this special edition of Countdown on MSNBC.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: And with all due respect, we have a president who basically ran as the CEO/MBA president, and look what we got. I'm not too happy about the results.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Let me just also point out that Mitt Romney has not gotten a very good return on his investment during this presidential campaign.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: The answer to questions about businessmen or CEOs as president and the lack of Democratic experience running companies pretty well slam-dunked by both of the candidates tonight as we continue with Countdown's special post-debate coverage.
And joining me now, a panel of people who keep their mouse on the pulse of the netroots, or the mice on the - if we prefer that. Arianna Huffington, of course, founder of Huffington Post and author of "On Becoming Fearless," who is with me here in the studio. Josh Marshall, the publisher of Talking Points Memo, TPMMuckraker, and TPMElection Central. And John Amato, creator, managing editor of Crooks and Liars who attended tonight's debate and is still there. And I thank you all for being with us.
And, John, I'll start with you, because you are still there. There were a lot of slam dunks in here and there were a lot of applause lines and there were a lot of laughs. Who is getting the live and online love after this debate?
JOHN AMATO, CROOKS AND LIARS: Well, I'll tell you, Keith, it has really been a great debate. The people are alive, it's crackling in this auditorium. It was palpable, the electricity as the candidates were coming on to the stage. So there is a lot of love both ways. The Obama fans were screaming outside, they were just as loud inside. And also the Hillary camp was huge. So it's quite - you know, it is broken up, but it's - you can hear the pandemonium behind me, I'm sure. It's a pretty split even group, I would say.
OLBERMANN: Josh Marshall, from Talking Points Memo, from TPMMuckraker, from TPMElection Central, is that your read on this, too? I mean, I asked Mark Penn and David Axelrod the same question. There seemed to be great substance, there seemed to be great nuance. There seemed to be conviviality. There seemed to be party unison. But was there anything in here that really separated these candidates by any major distance?
JOSH MARSHALL, TALKING POINTS MEMO: I mean, I agree, it was shockingly substantive for a debate. You know, I thought both of them really had a pretty good debate. I thought that Hillary was a little stronger in the first half, Obama in the second half, especially because of Iraq.
You know, I think what this debate showed is that both campaigns went into this seeing the trajectory they are on going into Super Tuesday, basically liking where they are, not wanting to rock the boat. So, no, it didn't - there were not a lot of contrasts. I think the one thing it came back to was on Iraq.
And even though it was very convivial and very gentle, I thought that Obama did pretty well on that. Because for this audience, Hillary Clinton just doesn't have a great set of facts to argue. So on balance I would give it mildly to Iraq. But I thought both of them did pretty well, and that is because both campaigns are on a trajectory that they are comfortable with, and they didn't want anything unexpected to happen.
OLBERMANN: And we had very little, Arianna, that seemed to be unexpected. What - did anything come out at you as the decisive, a faux pas, a great victory, a decisive leap?
ARIANNA HUFFINGTON, THE HUFFINGTON POST: There was no faux pas from either one. But Hillary had the best line of the night. The one about it took a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush, it will take a Clinton to clean up after the second Bush. That was the biggest applause line.
I feel that Obama had the best kind of, sadly, powerful line when he said "right from day one," contrasting the "ready from day one" that we can all sing along to. And also what Josh said about Iraq, I mean, that is the most important moment of the debate for me, because no matter what Hillary Clinton says, she cannot get away from that vote. She cannot get away from the fact that she did not vote for the Carl Levin amendment.
I was amazing that actually that came up in the debate like that. Because it is the one decision that kind of throws into question her claim that she really was voting to authorize more inspections rather than going to war.
OLBERMANN: And I want to ask each of you this question, and we'll go
back in the reverse order that we got here. So, Arianna, you start. That
may be that's it. Did she get deeper into the woods of trying to explain Iraq and not get out? Because it seemed as if bringing in the megalomania of Saddam Hussein, I still don't know. And I don't think...
HUFFINGTON: And then Mark Penn didn't answer it for you.
OLBERMANN: I don't think he knew what it was either. Where was she going, and the only thing that it did seem was that they seemed to be comfortable to some degree rationalizing the decision. Well, it could have turned out the right, the odds, in retrospect, are obviously a million-to-one. But we didn't know that then. Has there been some sort of shift in the Clinton campaign to rationalize that decision?
HUFFINGTON: Well, not didn't she explain it, but I think she did go deeper into the woods, because by the end, she was saying that the basically execution was wrong, which is completely the wrong argument for a Democratic primary, because the whole thing here is not that the execution was wrong. Even John McCain agrees that the execution was wrong.
OLBERMANN: Right. That is a McCain or a Romney answer.
HUFFINGTON: You know, that is like - exactly. Everybody agrees on that. Rumsfeld agrees on that. So the whole point here is that Democrats almost universally now will say that it was a mistake for those of them, the 75 senators who voted for the war.
And what is interesting is the journey. She went from being one of the 77 senators to vote for the war to being one of 14 senators to vote against the funding of war. And there's no way she can explain that transition except for political expediency.
OLBERMANN: Or if you just come out and say, no, that was really wrong of me in the first chance and I didn't do...
HUFFINGTON: But she has down that.
OLBERMANN: Well, then, Josh, where is that in the list of items that most concerns the Web, the blogosphere? Where is the online outrage about that? Will it be tamped up as a result of this or tamped down as a result of this debate?
MARSHALL: Well, look, Iraq has been a key issue online and offline in this entire country, since 2003. And you know, I think that was - it was almost sort of a touching moment in my mind, because I thought Hillary in debating terms did pretty well coming with explanations and rationalizations. But at the end of the day, she just didn't have the set of facts in hand that Obama did. And that made it - she just couldn't overcome that.
I guess the point that I would point out is that if you're a political junkie like we are here, you've seen them go over this a million times. You know sort of the basic argument that each one of them make. But there are a lot of people who are going to vote on Tuesday who are watching this who probably have not seen these earlier debates.
So this was really their introduction to this issue for them. And on those terms, I think he came off pretty well. And again, I think that's - it's really key for people like us who, you know, live and breathe politics, don't have another life otherwise to remember that. This the first time for a lot of people.
OLBERMANN: That's right. A lot of people are saying, now which one's last name is Clinton and which one's last name is Obama? John Amato, in the theater, was that feeling there extant, that the Iraq issue may be the separator in these two candidates and that maybe that's the one thing that you wouldn't give an individual grade of A to is Hillary Clinton's answers and the new versions, the new mutations of those answers that we heard tonight?
AMATO: Yes, you know, look, Hillary is never going say that that was a wrong vote. She has taken a tough stand on it. I think she said it in every debate that with the information that she has had, she made the vote that she thought (INAUDIBLE).
And we all know that she's not coming off that. Because she thinks it's a weakness. And of course, in the blogosphere there's a lot of animosity towards that vote. And it's a position that she's had trouble dancing around. And I think Arianna and Josh make that point.
But all - you know, if you're a Hillary fan, you'll accept that and move on. And you'll also notice that when Wolf kept hammering on her about being a naive vote, the audience started booing Wolf. I think that she got a chance to explain it and weaved and bobbed and weaved, but then Wolf just kept piling on. And it actually turned the audience against Wolf instead of focusing on Hillary's question and her answer.
OLBERMANN: It will not be the last time nor the first time that the moderator gets in the way, if that's indeed what happened. John Amato, stand by. Josh Marshall, stand by. Arianna Huffington, stand by.
Does tonight's faceoff in Hollywood provide a boost to either of these candidates as we look at Super Tuesday? What has actually changed? Speaking of that, the John Edwards factor, what impact will his supporters have now in the outcome of the national primaries? Our special coverage of the Democratic debate continues here on MSNBC.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: After the first one-on-one debate of the Democratic campaign, the super two head to Super Tuesday, did either gain the support of those who had been supporting John Edwards? We'll get the reactions of our Web masters and Web mistress, if you will, when Countdown's special coverage of the Democratic debate in Los Angeles continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: Of course tonight was all about tomorrow, or to be precise, five days from now when Democrats choose between senators Clinton and Obama in 22 state contests that have come to be known collectively as Super Tuesday. Super because the extra ingredient is American Samoa.
Right now we continue to look online for a look ahead to most likely the most decisive day in this race. Still with us: Arianna Huffington of huffingtonpost.com; Josh Marshall of talkingpointsmemo.com; and John Amato of crooksandliars.com.
Let's start on where the Edwards factor goes now that Edwards has gone. Arianna, did anything happen in here that would, in your estimation or the estimation of your bloggers and readers, attract the people who were from Edwards to either Clinton or Obama?
HUFFINGTON: I think something did happen. There were no fireworks, but there were two very distinct styles of leadership presented here. You had Hillary Clinton, who is passionate about electronic medical records. She's a realist, a pragmatist. She's a brilliant woman who is a wonk, who is going to be disciplined. She's going to give us electronic medical records, I have no doubt about that.
And then there was Obama, and he talked about bringing in new people to the process. And he talked about transformational leadership really. You know, interesting, even about the war, he said, I don't want just to end the war, I want to end the mindset that got us into war. So these are two very different kinds of leadership.
I think a lot of the Edwards people would be drawn to that passionate, transformational leadership. A lot of them also would want to actually end poverty. So it depends who they will think will do that. But I would tend to think that given that Bill Clinton did not exactly end poverty during eight great years of prosperity, he marginally kind of reduced, if they want something fundamentally different, they would go for Obama.
OLBERMANN: Josh, anything from what you tell from your community where the Edwards people might wind up and what, if anything, they heard today that might influence them in either direction?
MARSHALL: Well, the one thing I thought is, you know, John Edwards got out at just the wrong time, just before he was acclaimed a Democratic saint by both candidates. You know, I think - I don't really know. And I don't think we've seen from the polls yet how they're going break.
I haven't got - I mean, the one thing all the Edwards supporters that e-mail me from the site, you know, their big thing was John Edwards. They were really, really committed to him. So it's kind of hard to figure.
The one thing I would say is just that his campaign was so oppositional, and in a lot of cases so oppositional towards what he saw Hillary Clinton as representing, that it's not so much that I see them naturally going to Obama, but I don't think we know.
OLBERMANN: John Amato at the Kodak Theatre, any impression on this? Because obviously the first thing that was said when I guess he won the coin toss and when he was allowed to go and speak first, the first thing Senator Obama did, even before his first kumbaya moment with Hillary Clinton, the first thing was to invoke John Edwards and to talk about what a great campaign. There was more referencing of John Edwards in the first minute of a debate than there had been in the previous 17 debates.
AMATO: Well, I couldn't agree with you more, Keith. It was - as soon as they took the stage, it was John Edwards was just an incredible human being. And of course, I think that Josh also hit on it. We really don't know where the votes at this point are going fall.
You know, you could see a big difference between the Republicans and the Democrats, because as soon as Rudy was done, it was an interesting picture of Rudy with Arnie, with McCain, he was like a little lost puppy, immediately giving his votes to McCain. And you don't see that with John.
I think John is trying to - he wants his agenda - you know, he wants to make sure that poverty rules and that what he believes in, both candidates are going to carry on. So he's being kind of cagey with where he is going and if he's actually going to even endorse anyone. We're not sure of that. And so it was very fascinating that that was the opening salvo fired by Barack. And I guess more shall be revealed come Tuesday.
OLBERMANN: Well, yes, maybe. And maybe not. I mean, of course, we're still waiting for Bill Richardson and Joe Biden and Chris Dodd to endorse anybody, and they haven't done that. Maybe the cards will be held to the vest and you let the voters decide. What a concept. John Amato of Crooks and Liars, at the scene at the Kodak Theatre, my great thanks to you. Also to Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo, thank you for coming in. Arianna Huffington of the Huffington Post, always a pleasure to see you, especially in person.
HUFFINGTON: Thank you, Keith.
OLBERMANN: The Democratic debate may be over, but the fight over the issues lives on. Pat Buchanan and Rachel Maddow, our MSNBC political analysts, hit the hot issue from the Hollywood - well, from the Hollywood faceoff, next on Countdown. And it won't be all those cutaways of celebrities either.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: We should not use immigration as a tactic to divide. Instead we should pull the country together to get this economy back on track. That's what I intend to do as president of the United States of America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Something a little different at the Democratic debate tonight, immigration as an issue for the Democrats to debate, the two remaining ones. This is our continuing coverage in the aftermath of this, the 18th Democratic debate. And we're now joined by MSNBC political analyst Pat Buchanan and Rachel Maddow.
And let's talk about this issue of Democrats addressing, to some degree - and I imagine Pat will think it was a very small one, to some degree the issue of immigration. Pat, start us off.
PAT BUCHANAN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think that Obama had a good moment on it when he said we ought not to scapegoat these folks. It was emotional. But the fact that the question was asked by an African-American, and she was talking about the - as I recall, asking about the immigrants taking away these jobs. And on that I thought Hillary won the debate for this reason.
She showed empathy for the person and she also showed realism. Because the truth is, with the 12 million to 14 million illegals she mentioned in the country, most of them very low wage workers, they do dramatically increase competition for low wage jobs. And so I thought Hillary won the immigration debate basically in terms of reaching out into Barack's constituency and into the poor working class folks. So I think she won that section.
RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: I think she won it in terms of political aggressiveness, certainly. That was actually the one kind of shocking moment for me in the debate. I thought that Hillary seemed very bad tonight on Iraq. But on that immigration issue, that's the one other time when I made notes.
I looked down at my notes and I said, Hillary says that African-Americans should scapegoat Latino immigrants for taking their jobs. She specifically said, African-Americans - she referenced a personal interaction with an African-American man who had lost his job and believed it was because of Latino immigrants.
Barack Obama had said, let's not scapegoat anybody, African-Americans were having high unemployment rates before the current wave of immigrants that we know we're talking about here. And Hillary Clinton essentially said, well, I don't know why we shouldn't scapegoat them? I mean, it wasn't in that blunt a term, but it was - she was putting a wedge between Latinos and blacks.
BUCHANAN: But the truth is that if you ask African-Americans, many of them are more militant than white conservatives on the immigration issue because they're living in these communities and jobs are being taken. And there is a real turf war, if you will, over jobs and opportunities.
And the real world that is happening. And Hillary is showing that awareness. I think that is going to stand her in good stead. And I'm surprised. It showed courage, because it also - I guess you're going find some Hispanics to say just what you're saying, Rachel, she is scapegoating.
MADDOW: Yes, well, I don't think it showed courage. I think it showed cravenness. I mean, anytime you have got communities that are hard hit, and when you look at - like if you compare the start of Bush's term and Latino and African-American families and their incomes, and how they have dropped so much more than the average American family's incomes have dropped over Bush's presidency, when you've got two communities that are hard hit, that are both essentially at the bottom of the economic ladder, it's great place to drive a wedge. That's political dynamite right there. You can always turn them against each other. I was just shocked that she did it.
OLBERMANN: Let me interject something here to try to get a little bit bigger picture on this. Was it a surprise the hear two Democratic candidates for the presidency of the United States both say that for illegal immigrants in this country to gain citizenship, one said they would have to learn English, and the other said, we are going to have to help them learn English? They seemed to be fairly conservative - if it's a very, very subtle slice of the pie, Pat, that was a fairly conservative point of view for two Democrats, was it not?
BUCHANAN: It is, indeed. It is, indeed. And of course, when you get into the general election, I think Barack Obama's position about the driver's licenses and things, as we saw up in New York State, where 70 percent of New Yorkers turned against Governor Spitzer, and Hillary Rodham Clinton had to spin on the issue in a matter of weeks - and I thought she was effective also, Keith when she came back, Barack Obama said you had two positions.
And she came back and said, yes, and you were asked your position, it took you 60 seconds and you couldn't think of one. And he did not come back and respond. I thought she was crisp and in command.
On the first section, on the national health insurance, she has got clarity there. And on the second section, I do agree Barack Obama raised himself up back to the pedestal. And I think a couple of those answers on Iraq were terrific from the national standpoint.
OLBERMANN: We're going look at that intensely in a moment, literally in a moment. But, Rachel, just finish us off on the immigration issue and the subject of teaching English mandatorily.
MADDOW: I would just say right now that that sounds good, because I think the country has kind of accepted the Republican talking points and framing on this. But right now, Eliot Spitzer would probably beat any Republican candidate for president. Immigration has not been a great electoral issue for the Republicans, even as good as their talking points sound.
BUCHANAN: You wait.
(LAUGHTER)
MADDOW: Sure, Pat, I'm looking forward to it.
OLBERMANN: I just thought it was extraordinary that they were willing to take any kind of position that might be controversial at the extreme left of their constituencies. And that's why it's noteworthy for that, never mind the nuance that followed that both of you have discussed. As I said, literally, stand by. We're going to reset here at the top of the hour as Countdown's the coverage of the electoral debate continues now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END
'Countdown with Keith Olbermann' for Jan. 31, 8 p.m. ET
video 'podcast'
Special Comment:
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Guests: Richard Wolffe, Jonathan Alter
KEITH OLBERMANN, HOST (voice over): Which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow?
Clinton, nationally: 43-39. But the Keith number is 11. Clinton and Obama in Connecticut: 40-40. But the missing number including any support for John Edwards is 24. Clinton, California: 43-40, but the flex number there is 12.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Over the past few weeks, we've heard some cynical talk about how black folks and white folks and Latinos cannot come together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: The latest subtext to the Obama-Clinton battle: Ted Kennedy, reportedly offended by the Hillary Clinton's remarks about Martin Luther King and President Johnson because left entirely out of the equation was President Kennedy. President Clinton versus Senator Kennedy, Bill and Ted's not so excellent adventure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Can you control him? Oh, of course. You know, there's only one president at a time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Since when? Oh, yes, before those guys. Well, here's hoping. The Republicans rant (ph) asunder as the lunatic fringe screams that John McCain has been forced down their throats by liberals and independents, even though Florida was a Republicans only vote. The senator gets his third endorsement that will tick them off still further. First the "New York Times," then Rudy Giuliani and now -
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, (R) CALIFORNIA: I think that Senator McCain has proven over and over again that he is reaching across the aisle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Reaching back through the television. Bill O, protested by the homeless veterans who said, do not exist or if they did, they were drug addicts and crazy people and nobody can help them. And he sends his flunky to taunt the protesting homeless heroes.
And tonight: A special comment of FISA and the telecoms.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH, UNITED STATES: It means, if you don't act by Friday, our ability to track terrorist threats would be weakened and our citizens will be in greater danger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: The deadline is extended 15 days but the president still insists on retroactive immunity for whatever crimes the telecom companies committed helping him eavesdrop on you even though he will not confirm they did anything. Too bad the vice president just did confirm that and too bad the president would rather protect the corporations from the law than protect the people from the terrorists.
All that and more, now, on Countdown.
Good evening, this is Thursday, January 31st, 278 days until the 2008 presidential election. The Woodward and Bernstein source may have conveyed the reporters to connect the burglary at Democratic headquarters to the campaign financing a President Nixon's election, but "deep throat" never actually said, "follow the money." That was the concise creation of the great screenwriter, Bill Goldman. And tonight, his line also proves useful even for campaigns absent any whiff of scandal.
Our fifth story in the Countdown: Follow the money. Barack Obama has raised $32 million this month and they haven't counted today's receipts yet, nor the receipt of the late breaking news that 200,000-member transportation workers' union will switch its endorsement to Obama from John Edwards. And Senator Obama was speaking at the town hall style forum in L.A. No word yet on how much Senators Clinton or McCain raised this month. Though, McCain apparently was as broke as he seemed before his winning streak - more on that in a bit.
Obama now advertising in 20 of the 22 states in play for next week's Super Tuesday primaries and to start advertising in states that would vote thereafter. No public events on Senator Clinton's schedule today. She is now advertising in 12 Super Tuesday states including her own New York and California where a statewide ad buy can cost as much as $5 million a week, can't find me love, can't buy me improve poll numbers.
Senator Obama appears to be gaining on Senator Clinton there. Her lead down to three in the Rasmussen Reports poll for California: 43 percent to 40 percent. The survey was taken on Tuesday when Edwards was still in the race. His 9 percent now up for grabs. In addition, the Keith number: not sure plus margin of error is 8 percent. Two weeks ago, Senator Clinton was up by a point margin in the same survey, the other variables considerably greater then as well. Meanwhile, the race is also tightening up nationally. In the Gallup daily tracking poll, Senator Obama closing the gap by two points in just the last 24-hours. Today, Clinton: 43, Obama: 39; Keith number: 11 percent. Yesterday, it had been Clinton: 42;
Obama: 36, Keith number, holding. Time now to call in our own, Richard Wolffe, senior White House correspondent for "Newsweek" magazine joining us tonight from Los Angeles. Richard, good evening.
RICHARD WOLFFE, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Good evening, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Today's headlines, Senator Obama $32 million raised in the month of January with the last day not counted yet. The entire presidential field in California for the day, in terms of what it's going to take to win in California next Tuesday, these headlines are linked how?
WOLFFE: Well, first up, it's an extraordinary amount of money for any candidate to pull in and not least the candidate who he pulled in all this money after he lost in New Hampshire. So, big sums of money here. California, you'd think, well, that's the TV advertising. But it is interesting that the Obama campaign has not added to it's TV buy here with all this cash flowing in. And that tells you one of two things, either the numbers are closing even more than we think and they are confident how it's going to shape from here. Or, what I think is more probable, there are diminishing returns of the Obama campaign. They can add an extra $5 million to their spending and really not increase the number of delegates that much. So, they're taking a strategic view here putting that money in the post February 5th states.
OLBERMANN: So, what is in play that was not? We cannot stir at all 22 states at once or we'll go nuts. Which one or two are in fact, the least wins on Tuesday?
WOLFFE: Well, I don't want to make you go nuts before February 5th, but it's going to be even more complex and confusing. Because we use to in TV land anyway, calling these states and saying the winner is this. But these are proportional states. So, what we have to do here is look congressional district by district. So, in California you make another winner but the delegate counts will look different and it does come back to add California, number of delegates in play, the complexity here is going to decide how long and whether this race continues beyond February 5th. It's all down to those individual districts in California.
OLBERMANN: The news that's coming tonight that tomorrow the transportation workers endorsement is going to move from Senator Edwards to Senator Obama. Is this a harbinger? Is this the gates moving apart here for him? Could it be the first of several unions to switch to Obama now that Edwards has pulled out?
WOLFFE: Well, you would think so. I mean, unions were Edwards' core strength here. And it's been something lacking in terms of the Obama campaign and they do deliver the votes when it comes to the ground game in the last 48-72 hours of any of these primaries. So, they are important. Clinton has a lot of big union support, too. So, I'd say, it's a evening out here rather than a decisive factor for anything in Obama land.
OLBERMANN: And as important as securing any endorsement by Senator Edwards, himself, might it be just as important to lock down his fundraisers?
WOLFFE: Yes, there's a hard competition here for the fundraisers. I mean, clearly, Obama is raising enough money from the Internet and I'm sure Hillary Clinton is raising a lot of money, too. Not as much but those big fundraisers are important, they're important signals for the people in the party, too. In the end, what they're looking for of course, is where is that 12 points as soon the polls break down in terms of Edwards' vote going to Obama or Clinton. And we still haven't got a good handle on that.
OLBERMANN: Lastly, Richard, anything on an Edwards endorsement?
WOLFFE: You know, not yet. I think it's going to be - it's a tough call whether he does it before February 5th. Look for the other key figures who are out there, notably, the wife of Charlie Rangel, look what she does. She sponsored in an Obama fundraiser, big New York supporter as she might go for Obama.
OLBERMANN: Wow. Richard Wolffe of MSNBC and "Newsweek" Great thanks. See what's happening in the Rangel's household. We'll see you again later tonight. Thanks, Richard.
Senator Ted Kennedy's stumping for Obama today in New Mexico. Quoting the Latino vote on Obama's behalf. Three days after he gave him his endorsement. Not coincidentally, New Mexico is where former president Clinton spent his day as well, raising the question of whether we are going to see as many Kennedy-Clinton match-ups on the campaign trail as we do match-ups between the actual candidates who are running. Bill Clinton's making other headlines today. According to the "New York Times" report, Bill Clinton helped a Canadian mining magnate secure a contract in Kazakhstan after deal, the magnate donated $31 million to the Clinton foundation. Senator Clinton seem to admit in a Nightline interview last night that her husband's presidency was in fact a co-presidency and saying, it did not work. In a key phrase of her husband's stump speech essentially about America is the message her administration would be, quote, "We're back." It's open to multiple interpretations. It's time now to bring in our own Jonathan Alter, senior editor at "Newsweek" magazine. John, good evening.
JONATHAN ALTER, NEWSWEEK: Hi, Keith.
OLBERMANN: A little of Senator Kennedy's motives sort of coming to the surface a few days after he made his endorsement that he was taking enraged in a different way at Senator Clinton's invocation of Martin Luther King and President Lyndon Johnson?
ALTER: Yes, there's indication that he was concerned that Senator Clinton didn't mention the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was actually originally proposed by President Kennedy. President Johnson got it through after the assassination. I don't think that by itself is the sum total of what caused them to get so angry on that now famous telephone call between Kennedy and Clinton. He was also upset about the fairy tale line where Bill Clinton said that Obama's position on Iraq was a fairy tale. Kennedy said, in the day since that clearly Obama and his view was entirely consistent on Iraq and to make him into a flip-flopper on that issue, he felt was out of bounds. And he also felt, and he told Clinton directly that the campaign was getting too racial and that they were pushing some buttons that if not racist by themselves, set in motion dynamics that made the campaign more racial than Ted Kennedy felt comfortable with. And the call was apparently quite hot.
OLBERMANN: Wow. And nobody gets quite hotter than an angry Kennedy except it's an angry Bill Clinton. Are we seeing Senator Kennedy as Senator Obama's President Clinton equivalent, I mean when worlds or moons collide here?
ALTER: Well, it's interesting because on Monday, at the endorsement event, Kennedy was much angrier really in his rhetoric than anybody really expected. Meanwhile, Bill Clinton is toning down his rhetoric. He's on his best behavior. I think where Kennedy is going to be critical is on this Hispanic vote. He was on the Hispanic radio today in California saying that only he and Obama went out and marched with those Hispanics against what was going on the Republican side on immigration a couple of years ago.
OLBERMANN: It may have been last year.
ALTER: Yes, last year. And so, they're really trying to use him to bring in Hispanic votes and other votes of traditional liberals, older Democrats less of a hatchet man.
OLBERMANN: Is it clear yet regarding the Clinton campaign whether the Clinton's are trying to convince people there's going to be a co-presidency or they're isn't going to be a co-presidency?
ALTER: Well, they're walking that line, you know. On the hand one, when you talk to voters and that was out you know, knocking on doors in San Pablo, California a few days ago, just trying to talk to working class Democrats and for them, Bill Clinton is a huge asset, for many of them. So, that co-presidency thing is one of the things they like about Hillary. But obviously, if it goes too far, as we've seen in the last couple of weeks, it raises questions. And Gary Wills, the great historian raised this question in the "New York Times" recently and he brought up Dick Cheney. He said it didn't work well to have two presidents over the last eight years; we might want to think twice about whether we want a two presidents going forward.
OLBERMANN: And addressing the question of raising in the different sense, there's no denying the Clinton Foundation has done great work, but what happens if his wife becomes president, what happens to him trying to raise money and weld influence internationally on his own?
ALTER: Well, you and I really know this because we are two of the only reporters who cover this part of Bill Clinton's life which is highly commendable. He's done amazing work raising money to fight AIDS and fight poverty overseas. The problem is: Can he continue to do that if Hillary is the nominee and president or are there just too many conflicts that would come to the floor? And that's something he and his foundation worry about.
OLBERMANN: Yes, that was a shot across the bow on that topic today. Jonathan Alter of "Newsweek" and MSNBC. Thanks for coming in. Just a reminder, I'll be back with special analysis tonight's face off between Senators Clinton and Obama. I'm joined by Richard Wolffe, Eugene Robinson, Rachel Maddow, Pat Buchanan and a view from the Web from Arianna Huffington, Josh Marshall with TPM, John Armando (ph) from Crooks and Liars. Watch it there, if you must. Understand it here. Countdown special coverage begins at 10:00 eastern, 7:00 pacific.
Another endorsement for John McCain by another person hard Right Republicans really don't like. Is there a genuine the GOP will implode over this?
And: If the FISA law is not renewed, the president is implying Americans could die at the hands of terrorists. Yet, he is willing to see it not renewed. And that means - does that mean he's also willing to see Americans die at the hands of terrorists?
Tonight: A special comments of FISA and the telecoms. You are watching Countdown on MSNBC.
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OLBERMANN: An ultraconservative brands the first big four primary states, the axis of evil and claims that John McCain has hijacked the Republican Party. Is it coming apart at the scenes? And later: Logic sure is as the president a counter terror bill, one who will veto if the people are protected but the telecom giants are not, a special comment tonight on Countdown.
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OLBERMANN: If the far right has its way by the election, the Republican Party may come apart like a cheap suit. The Republican Party has been hijacked write one overheated gentleman at "Human Events" magazine. Over the past month, a new axis of evil has emerged. Not one based in Damascus, Tehran, or Pyongyang but instead in Cedar Rapids, Charleston South Carolina, there in New Hampshire and Boca Raton, Florida. It is the liberal and independent voters of these four states that have nearly completed a deed that makes Kim Jong-il envious. The near crippling of American electoral system. He blames the extreme liberalism of Iowa, South Carolina, New Hampshire and Florida for making liberal John McCain the front-runner. Our fourth story on the Countdown: If he's liberal, what would they call Abraham Lincoln? Satan? Meantime, the kind of endorsements for McCain that drive the lunatic fringe nuts keep filing up at a solar energy company, in Simi Valley, California and key word seemed to be global. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger official threw his support to John McCain. The governor admitted later in answering to a question that he did not plan on endorsing anybody because he didn't want to choose between his two friends, McCain and Rudy Giuliani who was also there today. But yesterday's Giuliani endorsement obviously put all that to rest.
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GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, (R) CALIFORNIA: There are things that Senator McCain has proven over and over again. That he is reaching across the aisle in order to get things done. There are people out there that talked about reaching across the aisle but he has shown the action.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: And after Senator McCain's own remarks, he was asked the $64,000 question. If two endorsements as in many days from party moderates may have a downside. McCain responded, the two heroes endorsed him and he dropped in another name.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: Today, Rick Perry, the governor of Texas will be endorsing me. You will see a flood of endorsements across this country from both liberal and conservative. We need all parts of our party together if we're going to win in November.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Let's call in NBC News political director, Chuck Todd.
Thanks for your time tonight, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS POLITICAL DIRECTOR: You got it, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Given the early reaction to McCain, Right wing radio, these guys at the fringe or apparently trying to draft Herbert Hoover or somebody. Does McCain have prayer (ph) of pulling what he just said of? Can he bring different parts of this incredibly desperate party together?
TODD: One big if. If the Democrats nominate Hillary Clinton. And that's what he's counting on and that's what makes the Democratic race become more fascinating now. Now that it looks like the Republicans are going to have a nominee. Because John McCain is much stronger and much more capable of keeping the Republican Party together and the conservative movement together if the opponent is Hillary Clinton. If it's Barack Obama, you know, then all of a sudden, all these scenarios, a third party challenger, you know, a challenge from the right, a challenge in the middle. Then, suddenly, he could face some problems.
OLBERMANN: And what are the chances this keeps getting worst internally and not better and they really run a third party candidate and maybe two of them. Maybe there's a Tom Tancredo, practical conservative and there's a religious conservative, Huckabee. That could be four candidates, is that possible?
TODD: Well, I think a lot of it has to do with who the Democrats nominate. You know, Hillary Clinton solves all of John McCain's problems. He keeps everybody calm, keeps everybody sort of inside the big tent. If you know, the opponent is Obama, then all bets are off. But, I think that McCain obviously is going to have, it may take that McCain has to start not just naming a running mate early, but start naming some cabinet members early. Start trying to keep different wings of the party happy. He may have to create a whole team of running mates to keep certain members happy. I mean, on the running front, you know, look, Mike Huckabee right now is the reason why John McCain is probably going to have this nomination sawn up on February 5th. He is serving as this 15 percent siphon of a potential Mitt Romney vote, that Romney has not been able to get the social conservatives and the economic conservatives in his tent. If he could, he could probably take McCain in a one on one. It would be very close. McCain has corralled the 40 percent of moderates that are there in the party. And there are 40 percent. It's a very high number, sometimes one that's overlook, but you take that 15 percent that Huckabee is getting from social conservatives and suddenly McCain has the winning hand.
OLBERMANN: So, are the endorsements, the "New York Times", Giuliani, Schwarzenegger, are they more hurtful to McCain's effort here than helpful?
TODD: You know, they could be hurtful, but the problem is Romney doesn't have - in a one on one, they would be hurtful. In a fact that it's still three-way race and still a three-way because look, Huckabee shows up, flashes the smile, does the op shots (ph) routine and somehow he gets 10-15 percent of evangelicals to climb aboard. As long as he's still in there, then, you know, these endorsements from the so-called left of the Republican Party, Arnold, Rudy and the "New York Times," although the "New York Times" is not part of the Republican Party, but you know what I'm saying. From the left there. Then, they're just not as harmful because there isn't a united anti-McCain front. And that's the thing that's benefiting McCain here.
OLBERMANN: Yes, the New York Times is not been Republican since Lincoln. Chuck Todd, political director of NBC News. Is that the guy for Lincoln like - anyway, thank you, Chuck.
TODD: All right, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Only at FOX noise would they do this. A group supporting homeless vets pickets Bill O, Bill O sends out a producer idiot to harass the homeless vets. And hey, body, anybody ever tell you looks like, what's his name? What's his name? These stories ahead but first the headline's breaking in the administration's 50 other scandals - Bushed.
Number three: Lip service-gate. In the State of the Union, Mr. Bush implored, let us fund new technologies that can generate coal power while capturing carbon emissions. Twenty-four hours later, the administration cancelled the FutureGen projects, $1.5 billion facility that was supposed to be build at Mattoon, Illinois has the, quote, "cleanest fossil fuel fired power plant in the world."
Number two: Surge-gate. The president also said in the same address, the surge troops were beginning to come home. Not exactly. The operational commander in Iraq, General Odierno says, after the troop productions this July, he may call for a freeze on anymore withdrawals.
And number one: Commission-gate. A new book by New York Times reporter, Philip Shannon (ph), will claim that the executive director of the 9/11 Commission, Philip Zelikow not only interfere with the 9/11 report, but he talked to Karl Rove about how to do that and the staffers of the committee that he prevented the report from including language, quote, "It would have depicted Condoleezza Rice performance. During the months prior to 9/11 as amounting to in confidence (ph) or something not far from it." How fortunate that we all already knew that.
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OLBERMANN: January 31st, this is the birthday of actresses, Jessica Walter and Portia de Rossi, who happened to play mother and daughter in the late romantic of genius that was the television series "Arrested Development." Miss Walters' father appeared in Arturo Toscanini's NBC's Symphony Orchestra, and Miss de Rossi was born Amanda Rogers in Australia. Are you guys making an "Arrested Development" movie, or do I have to keep pleading or what? Let's play Oddball.
We begin in the Santa Fe section of Bogota, Colombia where Oddball has managed to do something President Bush could not. We have found Osama Bin Laden. Actually, it's bizarro Osama bin Laden, a man named, Fernando Aguirre who claims he is Bin Laden's son and who for seven years, has patrolled Bogota streets dressed like the homicidal maniac, in order to ward off neighborhood criminals. So, just exactly why would Aguirre use Osama's evil for good?
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FERNANDO AGUIRRE (translation): I guard stores, taverns and most of all restaurants so that people can come have fun here in Santa Fe, and it is not a dangerous place because Osama is here.
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OLBERMANN: Ah, it's a pro-food and fun based fatwa. Now, it makes sense.
Seoul, South Korea, where earlier this week, celebrity crooner Na Huna (ph) called a news conference to dispel ugly rumors probably somebody in the media floated the story that the singer was castrated by a Japanese gang leader because of some sort of a lovers quarrel. Na Huna (ph) refused to stand for this, instead deciding to stand on the table and offering to whip out the truth on live TV.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (translated): I can show you for five minutes. Do I have to show you, or would you just believe me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: I believe you, I believe you!
TV Networks cut the feed. Na Huna never did expose the kahuna, eventually zipping up and stepping down. Unfortunately, I think he just give Bill O an idea.
Finally to the Internet. It's the stupidest thing in the world web to date. Behold, the pizza tracker. A website that allows you to track the progress of your pizza order online. Once you place the order, you log on to the Interweb and watch your pie's magical journey. From prep to bake to box to the delivery phase. It doesn't do anything useful I tell you when your delivery guy is around the corner. If you put on your pants like that, that - and never mind. But it gets you emotionally invested in the life span of your pie so you then feel guilty about eating the little sucker.
Same as the hands a bit annoyed written all over it.
Homeless vets protest the Frank Burns of news. So Bill O' sends out his chattels to give them a hard time.
In tonight's "Special Comment," President Bush, the FISA Bill and immunity for the telecoms. The president throwing out the counter terrorism baby with bath water. These stories ahead.
But first some of kind of, "Best Persons in the World". Number three best, alls well that ends well. Cody Young of South Salem, Oregon. The 13-year-old didn't want anybody to steal his bicycle, while he was out of the electronics place so he parked it just inside the Good Will store and they promptly sold it for $7. Everybody felt lousy so a local newspaper printed the story and the woman who bought the bike, promptly returned it. If it was my son's bike said, Anne Lambert, I know how he would feel for you.
Number two, Stevie Wood, members of the Hash House Harriers, the social and running club in Dorset in England. The late Stevie Wood. She was 86. She passed away her instructions, cremation and then mixed her ashes with sawdust and flour to create a new running trail on which friends could run the first Stevie Wood Memorial 8K. Ashes to dashes, as they say.
And number one, the new prime minister of Thailand, Samak Sundaravej. In sign language in Thailand, celebrities are often identified by a prominent physical characteristic at the same time. Now he has big ears, the interpreter might point through the ear shorthand. The new prime minister has been nicknamed at Rose Apple Nose because his nose is thought to look like a rose apple. So for years, they've had this one gesture for him. But now that he's prime minister, for some reason, this shorthand for Mr. Rose Apple Nose, this is suddenly a problem.
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OLBERMANN: Today, two weeks after challenging a guest to show him a single homeless veteran so he could help them. Bill O'Reilly, the Frank Burns of news, had a chance to meet one for himself. More than one, in fact, and in our third story in the "Countdown," he chose not to.
More than that, just a few hours ago, just two blocks from here, O'Reilly turn the veterans away back out into the cold. Not only did Bill O' cold shoulder away, the man who serve their country, he broke his public pledge to make sure veterans no longer had to sleep under bridges, literally or metaphorically. He did not even have the courage to meet them face to face to shake their hands, to hear their stories, to have them forbid summon the grace to apologize.
Instead, a producer asked the woman whose group provides transitional housing for 83 vets whether have an appointment. This despite the fact that Bill O' literally said on TV, quote, "We are still looking for all the veterans sleeping under the bridges, so if you find anybody let us know."
The producer took them into the lobby so that our cameras could not get a shot at of him except in their petition with 17,000 signatures calling on O'Reilly to apologize for saying there are no homeless vets. Instead of meeting with those veterans, O'Reilly had one of his, Stuttering-John-Type guys, tell the vets group, please leave a message, somebody will get back to you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAROLE GARDENER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, FITZGERALD HOUSE: They were very thankful. Thanks for coming with the petition and that they will get back to us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you feel?
GARDENER: Great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Great. It all began after John Edwards started pledging to help the average 200,000 U.S. military veterans who go without a roof on any given light in this country. Instead of helping Edwards, Bill O' called them a liar, saying quote, "The only thing sleeping under a bridge is that guy's brain," whatever that means. In fact, two minutes on the intertubes, would have told Bill O', the 200, 000 estimates came from the Bush administration.
And that number is a lot lower than the official government number that's who are homeless at some point over the course of the year. That's closer to 330,000. Of course, when facts like that did emerge, O'Reilly, changed his story - OK, maybe there are homeless vets, but not a lot. OK maybe it is a lot, but they all have substance abuse problems or mental problems and the government can't help them. OK, the government should help them. OK, anything but I was wrong, Edwards was right. Today those homeless veterans and Bill O' would not meet, would not hear, and spoke to us about O'Reilly.
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GREGORY ROLLINS, HOMELESS VETERAN: What you got to hide? We're right here. We brought it to you. What you got to hide? You know what I mean. If you make the statement, if your man enough, own up to it. If you didn't make it, then own up. I mean, at least you're man enough to apologize if you did make the statement. You know, if your man enough, own up to what you do. That's a real man.
NESTOR CABRERA, HOMELESS VETERAN: You know, Mr. Bill O'Reilly, I would like to escort you to the shelters. I would like to escort you to the V.A. Hospitals and to the streets. I would like to know where you get your data from. We need to sit down so we can get add this up and get back to business. You know? This is a great nation. You know? Wouldn't we fight for our country? I love my country. Don't treat us like this. Help us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Mr. Cabrera, he gets his data from what he sits on.
The president must have the FISA bill extended or Americans would be imperiled. But if the FISA bill does not include immunity for the companies who helped him eavesdrop or Americans, he will veto his. So wait, does that not mean the president is ready to imperil Americans? And this man has managed. He's managed to offend everyone. His analogy for Rudy Giuliani's farewell speech on Florida on Tuesday. What an Italian hostage said just before he was shot, he is a landmark edition of "Worse Persons" next on Countdown.
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OLBERMANN: Tonight's free fluke at celebrity and entertainment begins with what could be a turning point in the train wreck that has become Britney Spears. For a second time, she was hospitalizes for observation but in star contrast, her last trip under duress. The website TMZ says her new psychiatrist plan this intervention, days in advance. Police escort, taking her to the UCLA Medical Center in the early morning hours referring to her as "the package." Police radios to limit the paparazzi.
According to TMZ, her mother, Lynne Spears was agitated. Britney Spears telling her to shut the hell up as she sat calmly and voluntarily submitted to begin several days of observation.
Meanwhile, Dr. Phil was repeatedly said he shouldn't have said what he said after his hospital visit to Spear. He was on "The View," this morning, saying he couldn't say much this time because he knows nothing about it. When does the, not saying anything, part take in.
And in star contrast, the Hollywood self-absorb celebrities, here's the latest role for the actor, George Clooney, as a messenger of peace for the United Nations. Clooney is now officially touring U.N. peacekeeping missions around the world to bring attention to humanitarian disasters. Telling a news conference, celebrities can't change policy or minds, but they can make people pay attention to problems like Darfur, something he and fellow actors had been during for years to their organization called "Not on Our Watch". Hundreds of thousands have died and millions displaced have been displace by war in Darfur.
Tonight's "Special Comment," is the FISA Bill, if it really is life or death for Americans as the president insists why is he willing to veto it just to protect some corporations from lawsuits. That's ahead.
But first some kind of "Worst Persons in the World." The bronze to Karl Rove and Fox Noise. The blog inside cable news reporting when it was promptly stolen without credit by Matt Drudge but Rove will join Fox News as a contributor and start working with them as early as next week, Super Tuesday. You mean continue working with them, not start, continue.
The silver tonight to William Donohue, self crescent president of the Catholic League who really has been in a mood off late. He has now attacked (INAUDIBLE) Bill Maher, telling Fox News that Maher is quote, "Going out to not just religion in general, he really has it out against Christians and that the point right now, I'd love to challenge this guy in a ring. Preferably Madison Square Garden. I'm a lot older than he is, but let me tell you something, I floor him."
Yes, that's exactly how Jesus dealt with his doubters, right? Didn't he stage a series of exciting three-round bouts against the paresis?
But our winner, our Byron York of the "National Review," wring a Tuesday's sweat filled semi-farewell by St. Rudy of 9/11, quote, "It is here in the Tuscan Bowl, that Rudy Giuliani has come to address supporters in the wake of his resounding defeat in the Florida primary. And he is probably, wildly inappropriate to say, but in this setting and under these circumstances, it is hard not to think of that Fabrizio Quattrocchi, the courageous gentleman who taken hostage by Islamic terrorist in Iraq in 2004, cried out now I will show you how an Italian dies, just before he was shot.
Well, congratulations. Not even in this segment whom I think I've ever encountered anybody who has managed to pull all this off. Managing to offend and at the same time, Republicans, Democrats, Giuliani supporters, Giuliani haters, Italians, Humanist, paranoid, counter terrorist, pragmatic counter terrorist, friends of Fabrizio Quattrocchi and magazine critics. Well done, sir. You have offended everybody.
Byron, if you think it's probably widely inappropriate to say, then don't say it, moron. York, today's "Worst Person in the World."
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OLBERMANN: Finally, tonight as promised, a "Special Comment" of FISA and the telecoms. In a presidency of hypocrisy and administration of exploitation, a labyrinth of leadership in which every vital fact is a puzzle inside a riddle wrap in an enigma hidden under a claim of executive privilege supervised by an idiot. This one is surprisingly easy.
President Bush has put protecting the telecom giants from the laws ahead of protecting you from the terrorist. He has demanded an extension of FISA law, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. But only an extension that includes retroactive immunity for the telecoms who helped him spy on you. Congress has given him and he has today signed a 15-day extension, which simply kicks the time bomb down the field, which has change nothing of his insipid rhetoric in which he portrays the Democrats as soft on terror and getting in the way of his super human efforts to protect the nation.
When, in fact and with bitter irony, if anybody is soft on terror right now, it is Mr. Bush. In the State of the Union address, sir, you told Congress, if you do not act by Friday, our ability to track terrorist threats will be weakened and our citizens will be in greater danger. Yet you are willing to weaken that ability. You will subject us, your citizens, to that radar danger.
This Mr. Bush is simple enough even for you to understand. If Congress approves the new FISA act without telecom immunity, and sends it to your desk and you veto it, you by your own terms and your definitions. You will have just sided with the terrorists. You got to have this law or we're all going to die. But you might veto this law.
It's bad enough, sir, that you are demanding an Expose Facto Law, which would clear the phone giants from responsibility for their systematic, aggressive, and blatant collaboration with your illegal and unjustified spying on Americans under this flimsy guides of looking for any terrorists who are stupid enough to make a collect call or send a mass e-mail.
But when you then demanded again during the State of the Union address, the Congress retroactively clear the Verizon's and AT&T's you wouldn't even confirm that they actually did anything for which they deserved to be cleared. The Congress must pass liability protection for companies believed to have assisted in the efforts to defend America. Believed? Don't you know? Does the endless hair splitting of your presidential fine print extend even here?
If you, sir, are asking Congress and us to join you in this shameless, breathless, literally textbook example of fascism, the merge efforts of government and corporation who answered to no government, you still don't have the guts to even say the telecom companies did assist you in your efforts? Will you and the equivocators who surround you like a cocoon never go on the record about anything, even the stuff you claim to believe in? Silly me.
Of course Mr. Bush is going to say believe. Yes, it sounds dumber than if he had referred to himself as the alleged president or had said today is reportedly Thursday or acclaim mission accomplished in Iraq. But the moment he does say anything else, any doubt that the telecoms knowingly broke the laws out the window and with it, any chance that even the Republicans who are fighting this like they are trying to fend off terrorists using nothing but broke beer bottles and swear words could not consent to retroactively immunize corporate criminals, which is why the vice president probably shouldn't have phoned in to the Rush Limbaugh propaganda festival yesterday.
Six sentence out of Mr. Cheney's mouth. The FISA bill is about, quote, retroactive liability protection for the company's that have worked with us and helped us prevent further attacks against the United States. Oops, Mr. Cheney is something of a loose cannon of course. But he kind of let the wrong cat out of the bag there. Because Mr. Bush and the corporations that he values more than people, did not want anybody to verify what Mark Klein says.
Mark Klein is the AT&T whistle blower who appeared on this news cast last November who explained in a placid, dull terms of your local neighborhood IT desk, how he personally attached all of AT&T circuits, everything. Carrying every phone call, every e-mail, every bit of web browsing into a secure room, room number 641-A at the Folsom St. facility in San Francisco, where it was all copied so the government could look at it. Not some of it, not just the international part of it, certainly not just the stuff some, truly patriotic and telepathic spy might able to define have been sent or spoken by or to a terrorist, every thing.
Every time you looked at a naked picture, every time you bid on eBay, every time you phoned in a donation to a Democrat, my thought was George Orwell's 1984, Mr. Klein told me, reflecting back and here I am, forced to connect the big brother machine. You know, Mr. Bush, if Mr. Klein's big brother machine, along the vice president conveniently just confirmed for us, if it wasn't any damn use at all at actually finding anything, you could probably program it to find out who started that slanderous e-mail about Barack Obama.
Use room 641-A to identify that E-assassin, sir, and I'll stand up and applaud you. Yes, I'm holding my breath on that one too. But of course, sir, this isn't about finding that kind of needle in a haystack. This is not even about finding a haystack. This is about scooping up every piece of hay there ever was and laying the ground work for the next little job which you have to outsource to AT&T and Verizon and all the rest.
It was your director of National Intelligence, Mr. McConnell, letting this one out of that same bag. The need for homeland security to stable off cyber attacks against the governments computer networks. And how do they do that, sir? By constantly monitoring the Internet. The whole internet. And who actually, physically does that, Mr. Bush? Right, the same telecom giants for whom you want immunity quickly, so quickly you wouldn't believe it. Because this previous domestic spying and this upcoming policing of the Internet, they may be completely evil, indiscriminate, unlawful and you have to dress it all up as something just the opposite. It isn't evil. It's you said to protect America.
It isn't indiscriminate. You said it's the ability to monitor terrorist communications. It isn't unlawful. It's just the kind of perfectly legal thing for which you happen to need immunity. There's yet another level to this and here we move from big brother to sleazy son. Mr. Bush's new attorney-general Mr. Mukasey, the one who has already taken four different positions on waterboarding and who may yet tie that record on this subject of telecom immunity. He has a very personal stake in all this.
There happens to be a partner in the law firm of Bracewell and Giuliani name, Mark Mukasey. Bracewell and Giuliani and the attorney general's son, Mark, just happens to represent Verizon. You know, Verizon, telecom giant. And all of a sudden, this is no longer just a farce in which protecting the telecom as dress up as protecting us from terrorist conference calls.
Now, it begins to look like the bureaucrats in the third write, trying to protect the Krupp Family, industrial giants, by literally rewriting the laws of Germany for their benefit. And we know how that turned out. Alfred Krupp and 11 of his directors were convicted of war crimes at Nuremberg.
And then the last, for those of us watching the president demanding this very specific law, the once that Germans had, it was called the Lex-Krupp. There is one surprising bit of comfort in all this. Clearly, Mr. Bush is at his hyperbolic worst here. Consider how his chief of staff, Andy Card, came on and scolded Chris Matthews in the after the State of the Union Address. The president's address tonight was very important, Card said, because it really was a sobering call to reality for us.
And the reality is we have an enemy who wants to hurt us. The primary job of the president is to protect us. He talked about protecting us, he talked the needs to have the tools to protect us. Indeed, Mr. Bush. The primary job of any president is to protect us, not just those of us who own Internet and telephone companies, but all of us. And even you, sir, with your Internet and grasp of reality, even with your ego greater than 100 percent approval rating, even with your messianic petulance, even you could not truly choose to protect corporations instead of the people.
I am not talking about ethics here. I am talking about blame. Even if it's you throwing out the baby with the bathwater, Mr. Bush, it still means we can safely conclude, there is no baby. There is not a choice of protecting the telecoms from prosecution, or protecting the people from terrorists, sir. There is a choice of protecting the telecoms from this prosecution or pretending to protect the people from terrorists.
Sorry, Mr. Bush. The eavesdropping provisions of FISA have obviously had no impact on counter-terrorism and there is no current or perceived terrorist threat, the thwarting of which could hinge on an e-mail or a phone call that's going through room 641-A at AT&T in San Francisco next week or next month. Because if there were, Mr. Bush, and you were to, by your own hand, veto an extension of this eavesdropping, and some terrorist attack were to follow, you would not merely be guilty of siding with the terrorists, you would not merely be guilty of prioritizing the telecoms over the people, you would not merely be guilty of stupidity, you would not merely be guilty of treason, sir, but you would be personally, and eternally, responsible.
And if there is one thing we know about you, Mr. Bush, one thing that you have proved time and time again under any and all circumstances, it is that you are never responsible. Good night and good luck.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END
video 'podcast'
Special Comment:
Bush put telecoms ahead of citizens
Video:
via MSNBC
via YouTube, h/t fferkleheimer
Guests: Richard Wolffe, Jonathan Alter
KEITH OLBERMANN, HOST (voice over): Which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow?
Clinton, nationally: 43-39. But the Keith number is 11. Clinton and Obama in Connecticut: 40-40. But the missing number including any support for John Edwards is 24. Clinton, California: 43-40, but the flex number there is 12.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Over the past few weeks, we've heard some cynical talk about how black folks and white folks and Latinos cannot come together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: The latest subtext to the Obama-Clinton battle: Ted Kennedy, reportedly offended by the Hillary Clinton's remarks about Martin Luther King and President Johnson because left entirely out of the equation was President Kennedy. President Clinton versus Senator Kennedy, Bill and Ted's not so excellent adventure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Can you control him? Oh, of course. You know, there's only one president at a time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Since when? Oh, yes, before those guys. Well, here's hoping. The Republicans rant (ph) asunder as the lunatic fringe screams that John McCain has been forced down their throats by liberals and independents, even though Florida was a Republicans only vote. The senator gets his third endorsement that will tick them off still further. First the "New York Times," then Rudy Giuliani and now -
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, (R) CALIFORNIA: I think that Senator McCain has proven over and over again that he is reaching across the aisle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Reaching back through the television. Bill O, protested by the homeless veterans who said, do not exist or if they did, they were drug addicts and crazy people and nobody can help them. And he sends his flunky to taunt the protesting homeless heroes.
And tonight: A special comment of FISA and the telecoms.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH, UNITED STATES: It means, if you don't act by Friday, our ability to track terrorist threats would be weakened and our citizens will be in greater danger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: The deadline is extended 15 days but the president still insists on retroactive immunity for whatever crimes the telecom companies committed helping him eavesdrop on you even though he will not confirm they did anything. Too bad the vice president just did confirm that and too bad the president would rather protect the corporations from the law than protect the people from the terrorists.
All that and more, now, on Countdown.
Good evening, this is Thursday, January 31st, 278 days until the 2008 presidential election. The Woodward and Bernstein source may have conveyed the reporters to connect the burglary at Democratic headquarters to the campaign financing a President Nixon's election, but "deep throat" never actually said, "follow the money." That was the concise creation of the great screenwriter, Bill Goldman. And tonight, his line also proves useful even for campaigns absent any whiff of scandal.
Our fifth story in the Countdown: Follow the money. Barack Obama has raised $32 million this month and they haven't counted today's receipts yet, nor the receipt of the late breaking news that 200,000-member transportation workers' union will switch its endorsement to Obama from John Edwards. And Senator Obama was speaking at the town hall style forum in L.A. No word yet on how much Senators Clinton or McCain raised this month. Though, McCain apparently was as broke as he seemed before his winning streak - more on that in a bit.
Obama now advertising in 20 of the 22 states in play for next week's Super Tuesday primaries and to start advertising in states that would vote thereafter. No public events on Senator Clinton's schedule today. She is now advertising in 12 Super Tuesday states including her own New York and California where a statewide ad buy can cost as much as $5 million a week, can't find me love, can't buy me improve poll numbers.
Senator Obama appears to be gaining on Senator Clinton there. Her lead down to three in the Rasmussen Reports poll for California: 43 percent to 40 percent. The survey was taken on Tuesday when Edwards was still in the race. His 9 percent now up for grabs. In addition, the Keith number: not sure plus margin of error is 8 percent. Two weeks ago, Senator Clinton was up by a point margin in the same survey, the other variables considerably greater then as well. Meanwhile, the race is also tightening up nationally. In the Gallup daily tracking poll, Senator Obama closing the gap by two points in just the last 24-hours. Today, Clinton: 43, Obama: 39; Keith number: 11 percent. Yesterday, it had been Clinton: 42;
Obama: 36, Keith number, holding. Time now to call in our own, Richard Wolffe, senior White House correspondent for "Newsweek" magazine joining us tonight from Los Angeles. Richard, good evening.
RICHARD WOLFFE, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Good evening, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Today's headlines, Senator Obama $32 million raised in the month of January with the last day not counted yet. The entire presidential field in California for the day, in terms of what it's going to take to win in California next Tuesday, these headlines are linked how?
WOLFFE: Well, first up, it's an extraordinary amount of money for any candidate to pull in and not least the candidate who he pulled in all this money after he lost in New Hampshire. So, big sums of money here. California, you'd think, well, that's the TV advertising. But it is interesting that the Obama campaign has not added to it's TV buy here with all this cash flowing in. And that tells you one of two things, either the numbers are closing even more than we think and they are confident how it's going to shape from here. Or, what I think is more probable, there are diminishing returns of the Obama campaign. They can add an extra $5 million to their spending and really not increase the number of delegates that much. So, they're taking a strategic view here putting that money in the post February 5th states.
OLBERMANN: So, what is in play that was not? We cannot stir at all 22 states at once or we'll go nuts. Which one or two are in fact, the least wins on Tuesday?
WOLFFE: Well, I don't want to make you go nuts before February 5th, but it's going to be even more complex and confusing. Because we use to in TV land anyway, calling these states and saying the winner is this. But these are proportional states. So, what we have to do here is look congressional district by district. So, in California you make another winner but the delegate counts will look different and it does come back to add California, number of delegates in play, the complexity here is going to decide how long and whether this race continues beyond February 5th. It's all down to those individual districts in California.
OLBERMANN: The news that's coming tonight that tomorrow the transportation workers endorsement is going to move from Senator Edwards to Senator Obama. Is this a harbinger? Is this the gates moving apart here for him? Could it be the first of several unions to switch to Obama now that Edwards has pulled out?
WOLFFE: Well, you would think so. I mean, unions were Edwards' core strength here. And it's been something lacking in terms of the Obama campaign and they do deliver the votes when it comes to the ground game in the last 48-72 hours of any of these primaries. So, they are important. Clinton has a lot of big union support, too. So, I'd say, it's a evening out here rather than a decisive factor for anything in Obama land.
OLBERMANN: And as important as securing any endorsement by Senator Edwards, himself, might it be just as important to lock down his fundraisers?
WOLFFE: Yes, there's a hard competition here for the fundraisers. I mean, clearly, Obama is raising enough money from the Internet and I'm sure Hillary Clinton is raising a lot of money, too. Not as much but those big fundraisers are important, they're important signals for the people in the party, too. In the end, what they're looking for of course, is where is that 12 points as soon the polls break down in terms of Edwards' vote going to Obama or Clinton. And we still haven't got a good handle on that.
OLBERMANN: Lastly, Richard, anything on an Edwards endorsement?
WOLFFE: You know, not yet. I think it's going to be - it's a tough call whether he does it before February 5th. Look for the other key figures who are out there, notably, the wife of Charlie Rangel, look what she does. She sponsored in an Obama fundraiser, big New York supporter as she might go for Obama.
OLBERMANN: Wow. Richard Wolffe of MSNBC and "Newsweek" Great thanks. See what's happening in the Rangel's household. We'll see you again later tonight. Thanks, Richard.
Senator Ted Kennedy's stumping for Obama today in New Mexico. Quoting the Latino vote on Obama's behalf. Three days after he gave him his endorsement. Not coincidentally, New Mexico is where former president Clinton spent his day as well, raising the question of whether we are going to see as many Kennedy-Clinton match-ups on the campaign trail as we do match-ups between the actual candidates who are running. Bill Clinton's making other headlines today. According to the "New York Times" report, Bill Clinton helped a Canadian mining magnate secure a contract in Kazakhstan after deal, the magnate donated $31 million to the Clinton foundation. Senator Clinton seem to admit in a Nightline interview last night that her husband's presidency was in fact a co-presidency and saying, it did not work. In a key phrase of her husband's stump speech essentially about America is the message her administration would be, quote, "We're back." It's open to multiple interpretations. It's time now to bring in our own Jonathan Alter, senior editor at "Newsweek" magazine. John, good evening.
JONATHAN ALTER, NEWSWEEK: Hi, Keith.
OLBERMANN: A little of Senator Kennedy's motives sort of coming to the surface a few days after he made his endorsement that he was taking enraged in a different way at Senator Clinton's invocation of Martin Luther King and President Lyndon Johnson?
ALTER: Yes, there's indication that he was concerned that Senator Clinton didn't mention the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was actually originally proposed by President Kennedy. President Johnson got it through after the assassination. I don't think that by itself is the sum total of what caused them to get so angry on that now famous telephone call between Kennedy and Clinton. He was also upset about the fairy tale line where Bill Clinton said that Obama's position on Iraq was a fairy tale. Kennedy said, in the day since that clearly Obama and his view was entirely consistent on Iraq and to make him into a flip-flopper on that issue, he felt was out of bounds. And he also felt, and he told Clinton directly that the campaign was getting too racial and that they were pushing some buttons that if not racist by themselves, set in motion dynamics that made the campaign more racial than Ted Kennedy felt comfortable with. And the call was apparently quite hot.
OLBERMANN: Wow. And nobody gets quite hotter than an angry Kennedy except it's an angry Bill Clinton. Are we seeing Senator Kennedy as Senator Obama's President Clinton equivalent, I mean when worlds or moons collide here?
ALTER: Well, it's interesting because on Monday, at the endorsement event, Kennedy was much angrier really in his rhetoric than anybody really expected. Meanwhile, Bill Clinton is toning down his rhetoric. He's on his best behavior. I think where Kennedy is going to be critical is on this Hispanic vote. He was on the Hispanic radio today in California saying that only he and Obama went out and marched with those Hispanics against what was going on the Republican side on immigration a couple of years ago.
OLBERMANN: It may have been last year.
ALTER: Yes, last year. And so, they're really trying to use him to bring in Hispanic votes and other votes of traditional liberals, older Democrats less of a hatchet man.
OLBERMANN: Is it clear yet regarding the Clinton campaign whether the Clinton's are trying to convince people there's going to be a co-presidency or they're isn't going to be a co-presidency?
ALTER: Well, they're walking that line, you know. On the hand one, when you talk to voters and that was out you know, knocking on doors in San Pablo, California a few days ago, just trying to talk to working class Democrats and for them, Bill Clinton is a huge asset, for many of them. So, that co-presidency thing is one of the things they like about Hillary. But obviously, if it goes too far, as we've seen in the last couple of weeks, it raises questions. And Gary Wills, the great historian raised this question in the "New York Times" recently and he brought up Dick Cheney. He said it didn't work well to have two presidents over the last eight years; we might want to think twice about whether we want a two presidents going forward.
OLBERMANN: And addressing the question of raising in the different sense, there's no denying the Clinton Foundation has done great work, but what happens if his wife becomes president, what happens to him trying to raise money and weld influence internationally on his own?
ALTER: Well, you and I really know this because we are two of the only reporters who cover this part of Bill Clinton's life which is highly commendable. He's done amazing work raising money to fight AIDS and fight poverty overseas. The problem is: Can he continue to do that if Hillary is the nominee and president or are there just too many conflicts that would come to the floor? And that's something he and his foundation worry about.
OLBERMANN: Yes, that was a shot across the bow on that topic today. Jonathan Alter of "Newsweek" and MSNBC. Thanks for coming in. Just a reminder, I'll be back with special analysis tonight's face off between Senators Clinton and Obama. I'm joined by Richard Wolffe, Eugene Robinson, Rachel Maddow, Pat Buchanan and a view from the Web from Arianna Huffington, Josh Marshall with TPM, John Armando (ph) from Crooks and Liars. Watch it there, if you must. Understand it here. Countdown special coverage begins at 10:00 eastern, 7:00 pacific.
Another endorsement for John McCain by another person hard Right Republicans really don't like. Is there a genuine the GOP will implode over this?
And: If the FISA law is not renewed, the president is implying Americans could die at the hands of terrorists. Yet, he is willing to see it not renewed. And that means - does that mean he's also willing to see Americans die at the hands of terrorists?
Tonight: A special comments of FISA and the telecoms. You are watching Countdown on MSNBC.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: An ultraconservative brands the first big four primary states, the axis of evil and claims that John McCain has hijacked the Republican Party. Is it coming apart at the scenes? And later: Logic sure is as the president a counter terror bill, one who will veto if the people are protected but the telecom giants are not, a special comment tonight on Countdown.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: If the far right has its way by the election, the Republican Party may come apart like a cheap suit. The Republican Party has been hijacked write one overheated gentleman at "Human Events" magazine. Over the past month, a new axis of evil has emerged. Not one based in Damascus, Tehran, or Pyongyang but instead in Cedar Rapids, Charleston South Carolina, there in New Hampshire and Boca Raton, Florida. It is the liberal and independent voters of these four states that have nearly completed a deed that makes Kim Jong-il envious. The near crippling of American electoral system. He blames the extreme liberalism of Iowa, South Carolina, New Hampshire and Florida for making liberal John McCain the front-runner. Our fourth story on the Countdown: If he's liberal, what would they call Abraham Lincoln? Satan? Meantime, the kind of endorsements for McCain that drive the lunatic fringe nuts keep filing up at a solar energy company, in Simi Valley, California and key word seemed to be global. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger official threw his support to John McCain. The governor admitted later in answering to a question that he did not plan on endorsing anybody because he didn't want to choose between his two friends, McCain and Rudy Giuliani who was also there today. But yesterday's Giuliani endorsement obviously put all that to rest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, (R) CALIFORNIA: There are things that Senator McCain has proven over and over again. That he is reaching across the aisle in order to get things done. There are people out there that talked about reaching across the aisle but he has shown the action.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: And after Senator McCain's own remarks, he was asked the $64,000 question. If two endorsements as in many days from party moderates may have a downside. McCain responded, the two heroes endorsed him and he dropped in another name.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: Today, Rick Perry, the governor of Texas will be endorsing me. You will see a flood of endorsements across this country from both liberal and conservative. We need all parts of our party together if we're going to win in November.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Let's call in NBC News political director, Chuck Todd.
Thanks for your time tonight, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS POLITICAL DIRECTOR: You got it, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Given the early reaction to McCain, Right wing radio, these guys at the fringe or apparently trying to draft Herbert Hoover or somebody. Does McCain have prayer (ph) of pulling what he just said of? Can he bring different parts of this incredibly desperate party together?
TODD: One big if. If the Democrats nominate Hillary Clinton. And that's what he's counting on and that's what makes the Democratic race become more fascinating now. Now that it looks like the Republicans are going to have a nominee. Because John McCain is much stronger and much more capable of keeping the Republican Party together and the conservative movement together if the opponent is Hillary Clinton. If it's Barack Obama, you know, then all of a sudden, all these scenarios, a third party challenger, you know, a challenge from the right, a challenge in the middle. Then, suddenly, he could face some problems.
OLBERMANN: And what are the chances this keeps getting worst internally and not better and they really run a third party candidate and maybe two of them. Maybe there's a Tom Tancredo, practical conservative and there's a religious conservative, Huckabee. That could be four candidates, is that possible?
TODD: Well, I think a lot of it has to do with who the Democrats nominate. You know, Hillary Clinton solves all of John McCain's problems. He keeps everybody calm, keeps everybody sort of inside the big tent. If you know, the opponent is Obama, then all bets are off. But, I think that McCain obviously is going to have, it may take that McCain has to start not just naming a running mate early, but start naming some cabinet members early. Start trying to keep different wings of the party happy. He may have to create a whole team of running mates to keep certain members happy. I mean, on the running front, you know, look, Mike Huckabee right now is the reason why John McCain is probably going to have this nomination sawn up on February 5th. He is serving as this 15 percent siphon of a potential Mitt Romney vote, that Romney has not been able to get the social conservatives and the economic conservatives in his tent. If he could, he could probably take McCain in a one on one. It would be very close. McCain has corralled the 40 percent of moderates that are there in the party. And there are 40 percent. It's a very high number, sometimes one that's overlook, but you take that 15 percent that Huckabee is getting from social conservatives and suddenly McCain has the winning hand.
OLBERMANN: So, are the endorsements, the "New York Times", Giuliani, Schwarzenegger, are they more hurtful to McCain's effort here than helpful?
TODD: You know, they could be hurtful, but the problem is Romney doesn't have - in a one on one, they would be hurtful. In a fact that it's still three-way race and still a three-way because look, Huckabee shows up, flashes the smile, does the op shots (ph) routine and somehow he gets 10-15 percent of evangelicals to climb aboard. As long as he's still in there, then, you know, these endorsements from the so-called left of the Republican Party, Arnold, Rudy and the "New York Times," although the "New York Times" is not part of the Republican Party, but you know what I'm saying. From the left there. Then, they're just not as harmful because there isn't a united anti-McCain front. And that's the thing that's benefiting McCain here.
OLBERMANN: Yes, the New York Times is not been Republican since Lincoln. Chuck Todd, political director of NBC News. Is that the guy for Lincoln like - anyway, thank you, Chuck.
TODD: All right, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Only at FOX noise would they do this. A group supporting homeless vets pickets Bill O, Bill O sends out a producer idiot to harass the homeless vets. And hey, body, anybody ever tell you looks like, what's his name? What's his name? These stories ahead but first the headline's breaking in the administration's 50 other scandals - Bushed.
Number three: Lip service-gate. In the State of the Union, Mr. Bush implored, let us fund new technologies that can generate coal power while capturing carbon emissions. Twenty-four hours later, the administration cancelled the FutureGen projects, $1.5 billion facility that was supposed to be build at Mattoon, Illinois has the, quote, "cleanest fossil fuel fired power plant in the world."
Number two: Surge-gate. The president also said in the same address, the surge troops were beginning to come home. Not exactly. The operational commander in Iraq, General Odierno says, after the troop productions this July, he may call for a freeze on anymore withdrawals.
And number one: Commission-gate. A new book by New York Times reporter, Philip Shannon (ph), will claim that the executive director of the 9/11 Commission, Philip Zelikow not only interfere with the 9/11 report, but he talked to Karl Rove about how to do that and the staffers of the committee that he prevented the report from including language, quote, "It would have depicted Condoleezza Rice performance. During the months prior to 9/11 as amounting to in confidence (ph) or something not far from it." How fortunate that we all already knew that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: January 31st, this is the birthday of actresses, Jessica Walter and Portia de Rossi, who happened to play mother and daughter in the late romantic of genius that was the television series "Arrested Development." Miss Walters' father appeared in Arturo Toscanini's NBC's Symphony Orchestra, and Miss de Rossi was born Amanda Rogers in Australia. Are you guys making an "Arrested Development" movie, or do I have to keep pleading or what? Let's play Oddball.
We begin in the Santa Fe section of Bogota, Colombia where Oddball has managed to do something President Bush could not. We have found Osama Bin Laden. Actually, it's bizarro Osama bin Laden, a man named, Fernando Aguirre who claims he is Bin Laden's son and who for seven years, has patrolled Bogota streets dressed like the homicidal maniac, in order to ward off neighborhood criminals. So, just exactly why would Aguirre use Osama's evil for good?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FERNANDO AGUIRRE (translation): I guard stores, taverns and most of all restaurants so that people can come have fun here in Santa Fe, and it is not a dangerous place because Osama is here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Ah, it's a pro-food and fun based fatwa. Now, it makes sense.
Seoul, South Korea, where earlier this week, celebrity crooner Na Huna (ph) called a news conference to dispel ugly rumors probably somebody in the media floated the story that the singer was castrated by a Japanese gang leader because of some sort of a lovers quarrel. Na Huna (ph) refused to stand for this, instead deciding to stand on the table and offering to whip out the truth on live TV.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (translated): I can show you for five minutes. Do I have to show you, or would you just believe me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: I believe you, I believe you!
TV Networks cut the feed. Na Huna never did expose the kahuna, eventually zipping up and stepping down. Unfortunately, I think he just give Bill O an idea.
Finally to the Internet. It's the stupidest thing in the world web to date. Behold, the pizza tracker. A website that allows you to track the progress of your pizza order online. Once you place the order, you log on to the Interweb and watch your pie's magical journey. From prep to bake to box to the delivery phase. It doesn't do anything useful I tell you when your delivery guy is around the corner. If you put on your pants like that, that - and never mind. But it gets you emotionally invested in the life span of your pie so you then feel guilty about eating the little sucker.
Same as the hands a bit annoyed written all over it.
Homeless vets protest the Frank Burns of news. So Bill O' sends out his chattels to give them a hard time.
In tonight's "Special Comment," President Bush, the FISA Bill and immunity for the telecoms. The president throwing out the counter terrorism baby with bath water. These stories ahead.
But first some of kind of, "Best Persons in the World". Number three best, alls well that ends well. Cody Young of South Salem, Oregon. The 13-year-old didn't want anybody to steal his bicycle, while he was out of the electronics place so he parked it just inside the Good Will store and they promptly sold it for $7. Everybody felt lousy so a local newspaper printed the story and the woman who bought the bike, promptly returned it. If it was my son's bike said, Anne Lambert, I know how he would feel for you.
Number two, Stevie Wood, members of the Hash House Harriers, the social and running club in Dorset in England. The late Stevie Wood. She was 86. She passed away her instructions, cremation and then mixed her ashes with sawdust and flour to create a new running trail on which friends could run the first Stevie Wood Memorial 8K. Ashes to dashes, as they say.
And number one, the new prime minister of Thailand, Samak Sundaravej. In sign language in Thailand, celebrities are often identified by a prominent physical characteristic at the same time. Now he has big ears, the interpreter might point through the ear shorthand. The new prime minister has been nicknamed at Rose Apple Nose because his nose is thought to look like a rose apple. So for years, they've had this one gesture for him. But now that he's prime minister, for some reason, this shorthand for Mr. Rose Apple Nose, this is suddenly a problem.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: Today, two weeks after challenging a guest to show him a single homeless veteran so he could help them. Bill O'Reilly, the Frank Burns of news, had a chance to meet one for himself. More than one, in fact, and in our third story in the "Countdown," he chose not to.
More than that, just a few hours ago, just two blocks from here, O'Reilly turn the veterans away back out into the cold. Not only did Bill O' cold shoulder away, the man who serve their country, he broke his public pledge to make sure veterans no longer had to sleep under bridges, literally or metaphorically. He did not even have the courage to meet them face to face to shake their hands, to hear their stories, to have them forbid summon the grace to apologize.
Instead, a producer asked the woman whose group provides transitional housing for 83 vets whether have an appointment. This despite the fact that Bill O' literally said on TV, quote, "We are still looking for all the veterans sleeping under the bridges, so if you find anybody let us know."
The producer took them into the lobby so that our cameras could not get a shot at of him except in their petition with 17,000 signatures calling on O'Reilly to apologize for saying there are no homeless vets. Instead of meeting with those veterans, O'Reilly had one of his, Stuttering-John-Type guys, tell the vets group, please leave a message, somebody will get back to you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAROLE GARDENER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, FITZGERALD HOUSE: They were very thankful. Thanks for coming with the petition and that they will get back to us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you feel?
GARDENER: Great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Great. It all began after John Edwards started pledging to help the average 200,000 U.S. military veterans who go without a roof on any given light in this country. Instead of helping Edwards, Bill O' called them a liar, saying quote, "The only thing sleeping under a bridge is that guy's brain," whatever that means. In fact, two minutes on the intertubes, would have told Bill O', the 200, 000 estimates came from the Bush administration.
And that number is a lot lower than the official government number that's who are homeless at some point over the course of the year. That's closer to 330,000. Of course, when facts like that did emerge, O'Reilly, changed his story - OK, maybe there are homeless vets, but not a lot. OK maybe it is a lot, but they all have substance abuse problems or mental problems and the government can't help them. OK, the government should help them. OK, anything but I was wrong, Edwards was right. Today those homeless veterans and Bill O' would not meet, would not hear, and spoke to us about O'Reilly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREGORY ROLLINS, HOMELESS VETERAN: What you got to hide? We're right here. We brought it to you. What you got to hide? You know what I mean. If you make the statement, if your man enough, own up to it. If you didn't make it, then own up. I mean, at least you're man enough to apologize if you did make the statement. You know, if your man enough, own up to what you do. That's a real man.
NESTOR CABRERA, HOMELESS VETERAN: You know, Mr. Bill O'Reilly, I would like to escort you to the shelters. I would like to escort you to the V.A. Hospitals and to the streets. I would like to know where you get your data from. We need to sit down so we can get add this up and get back to business. You know? This is a great nation. You know? Wouldn't we fight for our country? I love my country. Don't treat us like this. Help us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Mr. Cabrera, he gets his data from what he sits on.
The president must have the FISA bill extended or Americans would be imperiled. But if the FISA bill does not include immunity for the companies who helped him eavesdrop or Americans, he will veto his. So wait, does that not mean the president is ready to imperil Americans? And this man has managed. He's managed to offend everyone. His analogy for Rudy Giuliani's farewell speech on Florida on Tuesday. What an Italian hostage said just before he was shot, he is a landmark edition of "Worse Persons" next on Countdown.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: Tonight's free fluke at celebrity and entertainment begins with what could be a turning point in the train wreck that has become Britney Spears. For a second time, she was hospitalizes for observation but in star contrast, her last trip under duress. The website TMZ says her new psychiatrist plan this intervention, days in advance. Police escort, taking her to the UCLA Medical Center in the early morning hours referring to her as "the package." Police radios to limit the paparazzi.
According to TMZ, her mother, Lynne Spears was agitated. Britney Spears telling her to shut the hell up as she sat calmly and voluntarily submitted to begin several days of observation.
Meanwhile, Dr. Phil was repeatedly said he shouldn't have said what he said after his hospital visit to Spear. He was on "The View," this morning, saying he couldn't say much this time because he knows nothing about it. When does the, not saying anything, part take in.
And in star contrast, the Hollywood self-absorb celebrities, here's the latest role for the actor, George Clooney, as a messenger of peace for the United Nations. Clooney is now officially touring U.N. peacekeeping missions around the world to bring attention to humanitarian disasters. Telling a news conference, celebrities can't change policy or minds, but they can make people pay attention to problems like Darfur, something he and fellow actors had been during for years to their organization called "Not on Our Watch". Hundreds of thousands have died and millions displaced have been displace by war in Darfur.
Tonight's "Special Comment," is the FISA Bill, if it really is life or death for Americans as the president insists why is he willing to veto it just to protect some corporations from lawsuits. That's ahead.
But first some kind of "Worst Persons in the World." The bronze to Karl Rove and Fox Noise. The blog inside cable news reporting when it was promptly stolen without credit by Matt Drudge but Rove will join Fox News as a contributor and start working with them as early as next week, Super Tuesday. You mean continue working with them, not start, continue.
The silver tonight to William Donohue, self crescent president of the Catholic League who really has been in a mood off late. He has now attacked (INAUDIBLE) Bill Maher, telling Fox News that Maher is quote, "Going out to not just religion in general, he really has it out against Christians and that the point right now, I'd love to challenge this guy in a ring. Preferably Madison Square Garden. I'm a lot older than he is, but let me tell you something, I floor him."
Yes, that's exactly how Jesus dealt with his doubters, right? Didn't he stage a series of exciting three-round bouts against the paresis?
But our winner, our Byron York of the "National Review," wring a Tuesday's sweat filled semi-farewell by St. Rudy of 9/11, quote, "It is here in the Tuscan Bowl, that Rudy Giuliani has come to address supporters in the wake of his resounding defeat in the Florida primary. And he is probably, wildly inappropriate to say, but in this setting and under these circumstances, it is hard not to think of that Fabrizio Quattrocchi, the courageous gentleman who taken hostage by Islamic terrorist in Iraq in 2004, cried out now I will show you how an Italian dies, just before he was shot.
Well, congratulations. Not even in this segment whom I think I've ever encountered anybody who has managed to pull all this off. Managing to offend and at the same time, Republicans, Democrats, Giuliani supporters, Giuliani haters, Italians, Humanist, paranoid, counter terrorist, pragmatic counter terrorist, friends of Fabrizio Quattrocchi and magazine critics. Well done, sir. You have offended everybody.
Byron, if you think it's probably widely inappropriate to say, then don't say it, moron. York, today's "Worst Person in the World."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: Finally, tonight as promised, a "Special Comment" of FISA and the telecoms. In a presidency of hypocrisy and administration of exploitation, a labyrinth of leadership in which every vital fact is a puzzle inside a riddle wrap in an enigma hidden under a claim of executive privilege supervised by an idiot. This one is surprisingly easy.
President Bush has put protecting the telecom giants from the laws ahead of protecting you from the terrorist. He has demanded an extension of FISA law, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. But only an extension that includes retroactive immunity for the telecoms who helped him spy on you. Congress has given him and he has today signed a 15-day extension, which simply kicks the time bomb down the field, which has change nothing of his insipid rhetoric in which he portrays the Democrats as soft on terror and getting in the way of his super human efforts to protect the nation.
When, in fact and with bitter irony, if anybody is soft on terror right now, it is Mr. Bush. In the State of the Union address, sir, you told Congress, if you do not act by Friday, our ability to track terrorist threats will be weakened and our citizens will be in greater danger. Yet you are willing to weaken that ability. You will subject us, your citizens, to that radar danger.
This Mr. Bush is simple enough even for you to understand. If Congress approves the new FISA act without telecom immunity, and sends it to your desk and you veto it, you by your own terms and your definitions. You will have just sided with the terrorists. You got to have this law or we're all going to die. But you might veto this law.
It's bad enough, sir, that you are demanding an Expose Facto Law, which would clear the phone giants from responsibility for their systematic, aggressive, and blatant collaboration with your illegal and unjustified spying on Americans under this flimsy guides of looking for any terrorists who are stupid enough to make a collect call or send a mass e-mail.
But when you then demanded again during the State of the Union address, the Congress retroactively clear the Verizon's and AT&T's you wouldn't even confirm that they actually did anything for which they deserved to be cleared. The Congress must pass liability protection for companies believed to have assisted in the efforts to defend America. Believed? Don't you know? Does the endless hair splitting of your presidential fine print extend even here?
If you, sir, are asking Congress and us to join you in this shameless, breathless, literally textbook example of fascism, the merge efforts of government and corporation who answered to no government, you still don't have the guts to even say the telecom companies did assist you in your efforts? Will you and the equivocators who surround you like a cocoon never go on the record about anything, even the stuff you claim to believe in? Silly me.
Of course Mr. Bush is going to say believe. Yes, it sounds dumber than if he had referred to himself as the alleged president or had said today is reportedly Thursday or acclaim mission accomplished in Iraq. But the moment he does say anything else, any doubt that the telecoms knowingly broke the laws out the window and with it, any chance that even the Republicans who are fighting this like they are trying to fend off terrorists using nothing but broke beer bottles and swear words could not consent to retroactively immunize corporate criminals, which is why the vice president probably shouldn't have phoned in to the Rush Limbaugh propaganda festival yesterday.
Six sentence out of Mr. Cheney's mouth. The FISA bill is about, quote, retroactive liability protection for the company's that have worked with us and helped us prevent further attacks against the United States. Oops, Mr. Cheney is something of a loose cannon of course. But he kind of let the wrong cat out of the bag there. Because Mr. Bush and the corporations that he values more than people, did not want anybody to verify what Mark Klein says.
Mark Klein is the AT&T whistle blower who appeared on this news cast last November who explained in a placid, dull terms of your local neighborhood IT desk, how he personally attached all of AT&T circuits, everything. Carrying every phone call, every e-mail, every bit of web browsing into a secure room, room number 641-A at the Folsom St. facility in San Francisco, where it was all copied so the government could look at it. Not some of it, not just the international part of it, certainly not just the stuff some, truly patriotic and telepathic spy might able to define have been sent or spoken by or to a terrorist, every thing.
Every time you looked at a naked picture, every time you bid on eBay, every time you phoned in a donation to a Democrat, my thought was George Orwell's 1984, Mr. Klein told me, reflecting back and here I am, forced to connect the big brother machine. You know, Mr. Bush, if Mr. Klein's big brother machine, along the vice president conveniently just confirmed for us, if it wasn't any damn use at all at actually finding anything, you could probably program it to find out who started that slanderous e-mail about Barack Obama.
Use room 641-A to identify that E-assassin, sir, and I'll stand up and applaud you. Yes, I'm holding my breath on that one too. But of course, sir, this isn't about finding that kind of needle in a haystack. This is not even about finding a haystack. This is about scooping up every piece of hay there ever was and laying the ground work for the next little job which you have to outsource to AT&T and Verizon and all the rest.
It was your director of National Intelligence, Mr. McConnell, letting this one out of that same bag. The need for homeland security to stable off cyber attacks against the governments computer networks. And how do they do that, sir? By constantly monitoring the Internet. The whole internet. And who actually, physically does that, Mr. Bush? Right, the same telecom giants for whom you want immunity quickly, so quickly you wouldn't believe it. Because this previous domestic spying and this upcoming policing of the Internet, they may be completely evil, indiscriminate, unlawful and you have to dress it all up as something just the opposite. It isn't evil. It's you said to protect America.
It isn't indiscriminate. You said it's the ability to monitor terrorist communications. It isn't unlawful. It's just the kind of perfectly legal thing for which you happen to need immunity. There's yet another level to this and here we move from big brother to sleazy son. Mr. Bush's new attorney-general Mr. Mukasey, the one who has already taken four different positions on waterboarding and who may yet tie that record on this subject of telecom immunity. He has a very personal stake in all this.
There happens to be a partner in the law firm of Bracewell and Giuliani name, Mark Mukasey. Bracewell and Giuliani and the attorney general's son, Mark, just happens to represent Verizon. You know, Verizon, telecom giant. And all of a sudden, this is no longer just a farce in which protecting the telecom as dress up as protecting us from terrorist conference calls.
Now, it begins to look like the bureaucrats in the third write, trying to protect the Krupp Family, industrial giants, by literally rewriting the laws of Germany for their benefit. And we know how that turned out. Alfred Krupp and 11 of his directors were convicted of war crimes at Nuremberg.
And then the last, for those of us watching the president demanding this very specific law, the once that Germans had, it was called the Lex-Krupp. There is one surprising bit of comfort in all this. Clearly, Mr. Bush is at his hyperbolic worst here. Consider how his chief of staff, Andy Card, came on and scolded Chris Matthews in the after the State of the Union Address. The president's address tonight was very important, Card said, because it really was a sobering call to reality for us.
And the reality is we have an enemy who wants to hurt us. The primary job of the president is to protect us. He talked about protecting us, he talked the needs to have the tools to protect us. Indeed, Mr. Bush. The primary job of any president is to protect us, not just those of us who own Internet and telephone companies, but all of us. And even you, sir, with your Internet and grasp of reality, even with your ego greater than 100 percent approval rating, even with your messianic petulance, even you could not truly choose to protect corporations instead of the people.
I am not talking about ethics here. I am talking about blame. Even if it's you throwing out the baby with the bathwater, Mr. Bush, it still means we can safely conclude, there is no baby. There is not a choice of protecting the telecoms from prosecution, or protecting the people from terrorists, sir. There is a choice of protecting the telecoms from this prosecution or pretending to protect the people from terrorists.
Sorry, Mr. Bush. The eavesdropping provisions of FISA have obviously had no impact on counter-terrorism and there is no current or perceived terrorist threat, the thwarting of which could hinge on an e-mail or a phone call that's going through room 641-A at AT&T in San Francisco next week or next month. Because if there were, Mr. Bush, and you were to, by your own hand, veto an extension of this eavesdropping, and some terrorist attack were to follow, you would not merely be guilty of siding with the terrorists, you would not merely be guilty of prioritizing the telecoms over the people, you would not merely be guilty of stupidity, you would not merely be guilty of treason, sir, but you would be personally, and eternally, responsible.
And if there is one thing we know about you, Mr. Bush, one thing that you have proved time and time again under any and all circumstances, it is that you are never responsible. Good night and good luck.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END
Wednesday, January 30, 2008
'Countdown with Keith Olbermann' for Jan. 30
Guests: Jonathan Alter, E.J. Dionne, John Dean, Dana Milbank
KEITH OLBERMANN, HOST (voice over): Which of these stories will we be talking about tomorrow?
Why now? Why no endorsements? And why let his ardent and fervent supporters drift away? Some to Clinton, some to Obama, maybe some even to McCain. John Edwards withdraws from the race for the Democratic nomination for the president of the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN EDWARDS, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We do not know who will take the final steps, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, but what we do know is our Democratic Party will make history.
(END VIDEO CLIP0
OLBERMANN: And on whose steps will Edward supporters land? The poll that suggests as many as 35 percent of them had no preference. Will those who wander to Obama alter the outcome in California on Super Tuesday?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Talking tough, tallying up years in Washington. That's no substitute for judgment, and courage, and clear plans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: In the Midwest and the Southwest, like where she spoke in Arkansas, will the Edwards exes help Clinton?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I need your help now during early voting and I need it next Tuesday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: The help Obama plans the Oprah Winfrey and Ted Kennedy express. Meeting with Ted Kennedy, first the attorney general wasn't sure, then, he said it knew it would be soon be time for him to decide, then, he said he wouldn't decide. Now, the senior senator from Massachusetts finds a new way to get a fourth different answer out of Mr. Mukasey about waterboarding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED KENNEDY, (D) MASSACHUSETTS: Would waterboarding be torture if it was done to you?
JUDGE MICHAEL MUKASEY, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I would feel that it was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: A long time friend of Mr. Mukasey, also feeling it was, instead of is, Rudy, we hardly knew ye. CSI: The Giuliani campaign. And from Dick Morris' claim that the supporters of John Edwards hated women and blacks, to the comedian, Rush Limbaugh bashing old people who vote. It's a big night in Worst Persons. Comedian's voting machine freezes and he says, I didn't call somebody over to help. Rush, we knew that already. We've heard the simplicity of your intellect. All that and more now on Countdown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, (R) FMR. NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Don't let it be said we didn't pay our bills.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Good evening, this is Wednesday, January 30th, 279 days until the 2008 presidential election. Both candidates arrived at the end of their respective campaigns could not have been more different. The Republican, Rudy Giuliani completing an extraordinary free fall that saw him tumble from hero to zero. The Democrat, John Edwards ending a race in which he consistently ran third, once even second in each contest, setting the agenda for the field and failing to breakthrough. But in our fifth story on the Countdown: The finish line is the same. They're both out. But what Senator Edwards does next could have a big impact on a long slow march to the Democratic presidential nomination. Senator Edwards returning to New Orleans, the city where he began his second bid for the White House to bow out saying that on his way to the news conference, he drove past an underpass where several homeless people live and stopping to talk with them was asked by one never to forget them or their plight. In dropping out, the senator is calling on all Americans to do better.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDWARDS: I began my presidential campaign to remind the country that we, as citizens and as a government have a moral responsibility to each other and what we do together matters. We must do better, if we want to live up to the great promise of this country that we all love so much. It's appropriate that I come here today. It's time for me to step aside. We do not know who will take the final steps to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, but what we do know is our Democratic Party will make history. We will be strong, we will be unified and with our convictions and our little backbone, we will take back the White House in November.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Last night in Florida meanwhile, Mr. Giuliani having only hinted that he will be dropping out by speaking of his campaign in the past tense. Today, the former mayor of New York flying to California to announce his support for Senator McCain and to take care of some unfinished business.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIULIANI: Today, I am officially announcing my withdrawal as a candidate for president of the United States. And so, deciding who to endorse in my particular case is not difficult because if I endorsed anyone else, you would say I was flip-flopping, after having already endorsed John. John McCain is the most qualified candidate to be the next commander in chief of the United States. He is an American hero. And America could use heroes in the White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Mr. Giuliani also recognizing that should his fortunes is not improved, his first campaign event with Senator McCain might will be his last.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIULIANI: I'm going to campaign with John as much as he wants, or not, depending on if I'm in trouble or not at this point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Giuliani later, for more now on Senator Edwards exit from the race, time to bring in our own Jonathan Alter, senior editor at "Newsweek" magazine. Good evening, Jon.
JONATHAN ALTER, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Keith.
OLBERMANN: All right. Why now, why did Edwards drop out today and why in particular before Super Tuesday?
ALTER: What happened to him is, you know, he ran a dismal third in Nevada, 5 percent. And then he goes in to South Carolina, the state of his birth, and they have a debate a week ago. And he wins the debate. The other two are beating each other up. He wins. The next day, no notice, no attention. He said to some people on his staff, he felt like he had to set himself on fire to get attention. And so, at that point, he realized he really didn't have a path to the nomination or even a path to holding a lot of delegates to be a kingmaker. And he and Elizabeth started talking about backing out.
OLBERMANN: Then, I guess a stuffy duck and other self emulator can tell you can only do that lighting yourself on fire trick once. Not a good idea. They're not a collection of pet turtles, they do not move as a block, but is there any indication of where Edwards' supporters go at this point?
ALTER: You know, it's such a confusing map. I heard an interesting argument today that in California, he would help Obama, but in states like Oklahoma and Missouri, he would help Hillary. So, this is a Rubik's cube on Super Tuesday with 22 states. I don't think anybody knows for sure where's the support will go.
OLBERMANN: Apparently, the Associated Press did a survey of some sort with Yahoo! that they haven't published in full, they'd just reference this passing in wire copy today that was fascinating that suggested 40 percent were of Edwards supporters said their second choice was Clinton, 25 percent said, their second choice was Obama and the rest didn't have one. So, this is - I mean, Senator Edwards has indicated and some degree did the tag team in the later debates with Obama, but indicated that he was seem to be more in tune with Obama. Is he likely to endorse him at some point?
ALTER: I heard today that likely would be too strong. It's possible, in a sense, but wouldn't be imminent. But even his aids felt like Edwards could surprise them. So, it's a nice kind of uncertainty for all of us. We really don't know and as I think we'd all found out, Keith, hazarding predictions this year is very dangerous.
OLBERMANN: Go ahead. If not a prediction, then an interpretation. That sound byte of him, the first thing he said about winning the White House for the Democrats in the fall, included the phrase if we have a little backbone. What did he mean?
ALTER: Here's where I understand Edwards is now. He's obviously more in tune with Obama on the message of change. He's worried about whether Obama is enough of a fighter. And he wants to see him fight a little more, to see whether he's going to be tough enough to take on the Democrats before he endorses him.
OLBERMANN: So, we will get to some of this in detail later on but what Obama said at his event in Colorado where he took the Clinton's '96 campaign and sort of twisted it around and try to hit her over the head with it. That's what Edwards is looking for in this?
ALTER: Yes, I think he wants to see him a little more comfortable on the attack and a little better with the counterpunching and a sense that he can, you know, really play in the NFL in November.
OLBERMANN: Jonathan Alter of MSNBC and "Newsweek" and auditioning for football night in America. Great thanks for coming in tonight.
ALTER: Thanks, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Amid the fight over the Edwards' endorsement, if any, there's another that Senator Clinton will not, that of the Rupert Murdoch owned "New York Post". The newspaper saying in an editorial put out in its Web site today and it's paper tomorrow that while Senator Obama represents a fresh start, his opponent stands and her husband stand for deja vu all over again - a return to the opportunistic scandal-scarred, morally muddled years of the almost infinitely self-indulgent Clinton co-president. That was an endorsement by the "New York Post" of Barack Obama. For more of the endorsement factor, that and the more substantial ones and what is now to the apologies to the Gravel campaign, a two-candidate race to the Democratic nomination. Let's turn to our Craig Crawford, also of course, columnist at CQPolitics.com. Craig, good evening.
CRAIG CRAWFORD, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to see you.
OLBERMANN: All right. Rupert Murdoch held a fundraiser for Senator Clinton at one point. There's also the theory that she would be the candidate that those in sympathy with Newscorp would want to beat in the general election. Do we have any idea what happened here?
CRAWFORD: It could be a scam. I would say for Senator Obama in the primaries, beware. Conservative tabloids in Massachusetts, liberal-bearing gifts. If you get the nomination in the general, in the case of the conservative paper, they might just be thinking they'd rather see the Republicans run against you. In the case to Senator Kennedy, that may not be such an advantage come the general election with a lot of moderates and independents and even Republican-leaning independents.
OLBERMANN: So, Craig, if you're Obama, do you come out tomorrow and just saying, no thanks or just no comment or just don't address it any way, shape or form?
CRAWFORD: I think you don't address in any way, shape or form. I don't think the "New York Post" is anything you really want to brag about in this campaign. And probably he needs to move on to other endorsements as you've discussed earlier with Senator Edwards. That's the one that might make some difference.
OLBERMANN: All right and to that point, obviously, the Kennedy endorsement on Monday gave Senator Obama headlines. What momentum it had may have been at least dulled if not supported by at least paper victory in Florida last night for Senator Clinton. But what would an Edwards's endorsement do for either of this candidate at this point?
CRAWFORD: Well, I think at this point, it would help Senator Obama the most. Probably, the one who's hurt by Senator Edwards not endorsing with Senator Obama I believe because it's not going to be considered that much a ding to Senator Clinton if Edwards doesn't endorse her because nobody really expects that I think. The one they expect, if there is any would be to endorse Senator Obama. The other thing, Keith, I would note is do these endorsements really matter? One of the things I learned last night watching the returns from Florida is this inside game of the early voting. What happened in Florida is so interesting to me because Senator Clinton was way out front in the early voting before a lot of these endorsements came along. They were closer maybe even tied if not Obama ahead in the live voting. See, that's going to play out in a lot of these Super Tuesday states. A lot of the votes, I've heard as many as 500,000 have already been cast in California before these endorsements. So, there is the possibility that the early voting when Senator Clinton was way ahead is going to overwhelming this live voting that reflects the boom from these endorsements.
OLBERMANN: Having said that with so many votes still to come after Super Tuesday and the likelihood that this is not going to be wrapped up on Tuesday especially with the Democrats, the exit polls last night in Florida suggested that 51 percent of the voters there, at least the ones who're at the polls, exactly that group you're talking about, that second wave group, they are the ones who voted live said that the Kennedy endorsement was important or very important to them which is it sounds like it just a 50-50 split. When you get an endorsement that registers in double digits, it's a big endorsement, is it not?
CRAWFORD: It certainly is so long as you don't have a situation where a whole bunch of early votes have come in before that took effect. And that's what we got to at in California. This is a new phenomenon by the way, all of these early voting, you know, each cycle, we get more and more of it. And I think it does tend to benefit front-runners in races who can lock in those votes before a challenger catches on.
OLBERMANN: And speaking of John Edwards and when he could do this and what an impact it might have, what about Bill Richardson, is this correct that he's still fighting it out in his own mind between the two candidates? He's been ran out of time at some point, isn't he?
CRAWFORD: Yes and if you take it face value, he based his campaign on his anti-war position. He's very passionate about this. I don't see why - it seems like it would be a no-brainer in choosing between Senator Clinton and Senator Obama given that Obama is anti-war from the very beginning. So, if Richardson met that, I would think that would be an easy choice.
OLBERMANN: Well, you think this would be the time for him to do that.
We'll see whether or not it is.
CRAWFORD: It certainly would be. The train is pulling out.
OLBERMANN: Craig Crawford of MSNBC and CQPolitics.com, thank you, Craig.
CRAWFORD: You bet.
OLBERMANN: Something made 15,000 people try to squeeze into an Obama rally in Denver today, in an arena that could only seat half of them. What does Super Tuesday look like now without Edwards?
And: Good news, everyone. The attorney general says, the Bush administration is not allowed to rape anybody. You are watching Countdown on MSNBC.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: John Edwards out so next week goes from soup threes day to Super Tuesday. How it changes not just the polls but also how it changes the remaining pair of Democrats. And later in Worst: Dick Morris insults Edwards' supporters and comedian, Rush Limbaugh insults his own constituents, quote, "old people". Ahead, on Countdown.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: Somewhere between 10 to 20 percent of Democrats now officially without a candidate for Super Tuesday and a third of them apparently utterly undecided of a new one. Our fourth story on the Countdown: How will the momentum now swing on Super Tuesday? The crowd showing up to welcome Barack Obama at Denver University, so huge that in addition 9,500 people inside the hockey arena there, another 4,500 were crammed into an overflow room. Several thousand more could apparently only stand outside. With Caroline Kennedy there, Obama taking the opportunity to twist Bill Clinton's 1996 campaign slogan and hit Hillary Clinton over the head with it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I know it is tempting after another president named George Bush. This is our second one now. So, I know it's tempting to simply turn back the clock, to look back wards and try to build a bridge back to the 20th century. It is time for a generation of leadership because the old politics just won't do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Senator Clinton fresh off her self-declared victory in Florida even though no delegates were awarded in that state, now stopping in her old home state of Arkansas. And give that exit polls in Florida showed that she won biggest among an absentee voters and those who made up their minds quite a while ago. It's no surprise that she's again appealing to early voters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I know that the next president needs to get up every day and think about you. That's what this election should be about, solving your problems, making sure your job is safe, giving you the health care you and your family need, taking on energy and the environment, we can do this. But, I need your help now, during early voting and I need it next Tuesday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Senator Clinton also apparently needing help in her new home turf next week while she's still in the lead in New York and New Jersey. Apparently, she's in danger of losing Connecticut. A poll taken that night that Obama won South Carolina, showing them neck in neck with 40 percent each in Connecticut with 11 percent of Edwards. Those are 11 percent of Edward's total now up for grab as well as the Keith - margin of error plus undecided total at 9 percent. It is anybody's race. Nationally, the gap is likewise narrowing. Gallup showing that Obama is now only six points behind Clinton, 36 to 42, 12 percent of the voters were for Edwards. They are now free as free isotopes and a K number is 11. I'm joined by, E.J. Dionne, a columnist from the "Washington Post" and author of "Souled out: Reclaiming faith and politics after the religious right." E.J., good evening.
E.J. DIONNE, WASHINGTON POST: Good evening, sir. Good to be with you. Thanks for showing the book.
OLBERMANN: You're welcome, good luck with it. Given how quickly opinion are changing seemingly on the ground not the least the disappearance essentially today of one of the candidates, can we glean anything about Tuesday next from those poll numbers?
DIONNE: Of course not, but we'll do it anyway. I mean, I think what you've seen are three big events for Obama, his South Carolina blowout, the backlash against President Clinton's campaigning against him and now, this Kennedy love fest, which is a big deal. And so, you're seeing at the Gallup numbers really striking because that gap between them is closed from something like 20 points ten days ago, down to six points.
But, Hillary Clinton is adjusting to what happened. They know that one of the worst things that happened to them is the reappearance of that word Billary. And so, we can joke as our friend, Dana Milbank did that it was a stunt worthy of Evil Knievel when she turned that ersatz primary last night into a real deal. But the fact is, she got a lot of media interviews, a lot of media attention. And her point was, I'm in charge of this campaign. And they have asked Bill Clinton to campaign for her with the same enthusiasm and mellowness shown by Fred Thompson in support of his own candidacy. So, they pulled him back, and they are hoping this adjustment works. And so, I think it's - the momentum is moving to Obama and whether the Clinton adjustment can help them push it back.
OLBERMANN: Now, if the Edwards - just based on the last national poll, with Edwards at 11 percent, for that break in Obama's favor, it really has to break almost entirely to him even how close that number's become. He'd have to get that nine out of every 11 Edwards' supporters to move into the lead there. If Edwards wants to influence the nomination, how long can he wait to endorse either of them? I mean, he can't wait past Tuesday, can he?
DIONNE: Well, first of all, in the numbers, you've seen a real shift already. So, if Obama simply keeps the trend going the way it is, he doesn't need all of the Edwards votes. But you know, I don't think this race is going to be decided next Tuesday. I think it's very likely somebody comes out ahead, somebody else wins enough delegates and we move forward. There are some states later on where John Edwards' message about working class people and the problems of the poor and the economy could resonate, Ohio in March, Pennsylvania even in April. So, I think he has time, if he wants to make a difference. Yes, he'd be very helpful to somebody, presumably Obama now, but I think he can also make his views known and have an impact later.
OLBERMANN: Speaking about views know, what about the impacts on tone, on positioning on issues, John Edwards is out, that permits or demands that Obama and Clinton say what? Where does it change the actual rhetoric of the campaign?
DIONNE: Well, you know, in some ways, I think John Edwards effect on the rhetoric has already happened. I think he really pushed both Clinton and Obama in a somewhat more populous direction. He got them to talk more about the poor, more about people suffering in this economy. I think for Obama, the challenge for him is to pick up his share of the white working class vote. That's been a strong area for Clinton. And so, I think he needs yet another injection of John Edwards to him. For Hillary Clinton, what she needs to do is with some of her fighting rhetoric against the Republicans, she needs to pick up the people who responded to John Edwards, the trial lawyer saying, he wouldn't sit down and negotiate with those people. And so, you know, my hunch is that Edwards' withdrawal will help Clinton a little in the south and help Obama elsewhere.
OLBERMANN: E.J. Dionne of the "Washington Post," his latest book is "Souled out," that is Souled. Thank you, E.J.
DIONNE: Thank you, Keith.
OLBERMANN: And ever since Joe Biden's unforgettable line of about a noun, a verb and 9/11, it's been straight downhill for Rudy Giuliani. He's out.
And: I do not like them in a box; I do not like them with a fox. I do not like them here or there. I do not like them anywhere. I do not green eggs without ham.
But first: The latest headlines breaking in the administration's 50 other scandals - Bushed.
Number three: Perpetuity-gate. The president with a signing statement rewriting a law. He signed the National Defense Authorization Act which bars funding for permanent basis in Iraq. The president is just going to ignore that part because he already signed his own treaty for those, no, nobody gets to ratify the treaty either.
Number two: Gonzo-gate. Scott J. Bloch, the head of the office of Special Council investigating a former attorney general, Alberto Gonzalez turned the U.S. Attorney's offices into political purging operations. As now written, Gonzalez's successor, to say that Mr. Mukasey's Department of Justice has repeatedly impeded his investigation denying him access to documents and not answering his questions.
And number one: Terry Gilliam-gate: For decades, presidents have showed one courtesy and one courtesy alone to members of Congress when they asked them to approve the budget. Free copies of the budget. Last year, the total was about 3,000 copies for members to peruse, maybe, while on the john and for their staffers to mark up. Not anymore, says Mr. Bush, you can read it online or we'll sell you a copy for $200. Why do I call this Terry Gilliam-gate, remember Gilliam's movie, "Brazil" which a future government not only abducts and tortures its citizens, but in one case, abducts and tortures the wrong citizen and then sends his widow a bill for the torture.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: Two hundred and ten years ago today, modern American politics was born. And for a debate over the impeachment of a senator, Republican congressman, Matthew Lyon was shouting about the malign influence of Connecticut politicians. One of them, federalist congressman, Roger Griswold heard what Lyon said, strolled over to him and spat in his face. For two weeks, the representatives disputed each other's honor as gentlemen and muttered about duels until finally Congressman Griswold went over to Congressman Lyons' desk and attacked him. First with a cane, then fireplace tongs. Coincidentally, 67 years ago today, Vice President Dick Cheney was born. Let's play "Oddball."
We begin in a small Mexican village where this chicken is producing predyed Easter eggs. This is Bobanita (ph), who despite being an otherwise normal looking bird is laying eggs that have green shells. Bobanita's owners have no explanation for it. They say the green eggs have been showing up since December and the chicken eats a normal tortilla and chicken feed diet. Scientists say there's no difference nutritionally between the innards of a green egg and traditional white or brown ones. A fact that has reassured all the omelet loving town folk except one guy named Samuel Losoy (ph) who refuses to eat the damn things.
To Los Angeles, where beginning today you can get your weed from a vending machine. I knew it would come to this. At the Herbal Nutrition Center, I forgot the change, man, this machine is the first in the nation that allows medical marijuana users to withdraw up to an ounce of Maui Wowie a month. In case you're wondering, every day stoners need not apply. The machine has its own guard. It requires a legal prescription and before you plunk in your quarters, you get photographed and fingerprinted. The machine's owner explains the elaborate security.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFED MALE: It's the highest verification that any dispensary has ever had.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Dude. He said highest. Huhuhuh.
The attorney general and waterboarding and whether it's torture from I don't know to I don't know yet to I'm not going to tell you to today, his fourth different answer. And in worst persons, another reminder of why Dick Morris might not be short for Richard.
But first time for Countdown's top three "Best Persons in the World."
Number three, best irrelevant endorsement, Hulk Hogan. Hogan says Senator Obama does not judge Americans based on, quote, "the people dress." If you were Hulk Hogan and you dressed like that, this would be your criterion too.
Number two. Best rage against the radio programming machine man, Paul Webster Feinstein of KOOP in Austin, Texas. A volunteer disc jockey on the station's Internet program. The program director apparently changed the list of jazz selections Mr. Feinstein was to play on his program, so Mr. Feinstein set fire to the radio station. He could go to jail for 20 years for that. More Django!
And number one, Jennifer Hunt of Sweetwater, Tennessee. Police say a passing squad car saw her lurking around a church early Saturday morning. The officer asked her what she was doing there. She explained she was relieving herself. That's when the crowbar she apparently had been using to try to break into the church fell out of her pants. Is that a tire iron in your pocket or are you just glad to see the bathroom?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: I miss Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. At least every time he defied the Constitution and the Congress, he always said the same thing. In our third story tonight, Michael Mukasey has today given his fourth answer about waterboarding. In a letter to the Judiciary Committee yesterday, Mr. Mukasey mutated from saying he knew at some point he would have to say whether waterboarding is always torture, i.e., illegal, to no, he had no intention of choosing. Much of today's expected outrage over that, however, missing the astonishing fact that Mukasey after reviewing secret DOJ legal rationales defending waterboarding also refuses to outright endorse Mr. Bush's prior use of waterboarding. Perhaps more astonishing still, in the course of the waterboarding debate, Mukasey, the nation's top law man says Mr. Bush may have broken federal law on at least two more occasion occasions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL MUKASEY, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Torture as you know, is now unlawful under American law. I can't contemplate any situation in which this president would assert Article II authority to do something the law forbids.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER, (R) PA: Well, he did just that in violating the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. He did just that in disregarding the expressed mandate of the National Security Act to notify the intelligence committees. Didn't he?
MUKASEY: I think we are now in a situation where both those issues have been brought within statutes. And that's the procedure going forward.
SPECTER: That's not the point. The point is that he acted in violation of statues, didn't he?
MUKASEY: I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: And while refusing, astonishingly, to rule out future waterboarding, Mukasey did define some depth to which even Mr. Bush would not stoop.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED KENNEDY, (D) MA: Would water boarding be torture if it was done to you?
MUKASEY: Um, I would feel that it was.
KENNEDY: Are there any interrogation techniques that you would find to be illegal, fundamentally illegal?
MUKASEY: There are statutes that describe specifically what we may not do. We may not maim, we may not rape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: At this point let's turn to John Dean, author of "Broken Government, How Republican Rule Destroyed the Legislative, Executive and Judicial Branches." And of course the White House Counsel to Richard Nixon. John, great thanks again for your time tonight.
JOHN DEAN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: Thank you, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Would your old boss, Mr. Nixon kept his a little job longer, if he had offered to Congress and the people, a defense, not I am not a crook, but I am not a rapist?
DEAN: He tried the I'm not a crook, but that didn't seem work. But you know, Keith, in his darkest moment, I can't imagine Nixon tolerating torture. I can really say that in his defense. We are on such a different playing field with this presidency.
OLBERMANN: How solid is the playing field on which Mr. Mukasey stands when he says his position precludes him from venturing an opinion. Should we not be expecting him more than others to say America does not have a set of secret laws somewhere and we are going to prosecute those who break the laws, especially if they do so under official cover?
DEAN: One would hope so. Your question, how solid is the base? There is absolutely no base for what he is saying. It's a conspicuous ruse to the committee. The committee recognized it today. I watched a good bit of those hearings. They were not buying the claims, they were not buying his stone walling. And they were very disappointed in him, those who even sponsored him and helped him get his seat are now showing remorse at least in the way he's handling this issue so important to the country, torture.
OLBERMANN: If he doesn't know, if actually has to answer "I don't know" whether the president of the U.S. violated two federal laws, is that the not the bells go off in an attorney general's mind kind of thing? That's the kind of thing you have to look into. Maybe you have a staffer write you a memo about. Is that not an automatic?
DEAN: I've got to tell you there's a long tradition of attorneys general not investigating their bosses. This is not a new trend. What they should be doing and have done in the past is try make sure their bosses are not breaking the law, to give them advice and counsel to give them away. And I think that's the sort of opinion I'm surprised he didn't offer the committee today. To say something to the effect, listen, I've told him this is something out of bounds and this is something you can't do.
OLBERMANN: To some degree, I think in fairness to him, he did say that regarding things that have been brought under statute, referring obviously to some of the FISA stuff, spectacularly in that instance. But that insistence, you look forward, you have a blind eye toward possible past misdemeanors by the man for whom you work. Does that tell us he views his job principally as protection of the president rather than protection of the Constitution?
DEAN: Well, I think that's what we have. He's certainly over there as a caretaker attorney general. It's not a long term he's in for. And he's there to be something of a firewall for the president.
This is, he's playing the role of judge as to what he thinks is across the boundary line and not across the boundary line. We can only hope, Keith, that indeed his advice in private is stronger than his advice he's willing to share.
OLBERMANN: So, lastly, John, we've had, as I said, four separate statements from him essentially about waterboarding as torture. Tell me what sort of attorney goes from, before his hearings, his confirmation hearings that he wasn't sure, he couldn't define, he hasn't been read in on it, then he said about a month ago he knew the time was coming he would have to make some sort of statement, then last week he said I'm not going to make a determination on this one way or another, I'm not going to say it officially, now this latest answer, if it was done to him, yeah, he would feel like it was.
What kind of attorney general could give you four answers to the same legal question?
DEAN: Well, I think what he's obviously trying to do is avoid the question. As soon as he answers the question and the answer is so conspicuous to everybody almost non-lawyers can figure this out. That under the broad terms of that statute, it could well include waterboarding and probably does include waterboarding.
So once he crosses that threshold, he has got to be asking, well, can I be looking at the president and vice president and others for war crimes. And that's where he doesn't want to go.
OLBERMANN: All right. Well, I'm going to close where I began. I miss Alberto Gonzalez and I miss Richard Nixon too. John Dean, author of "Broken Government and the Voice of Our Broken Government" segments. Great thanks as always, John.
DEAN: Good night, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Something seems to be broken here. What the hell is that thing? What the hell is that thing? I know what it is.
And what's this thing? Why, it's comedian Rush Limbaugh. Back for more in tonight's edition of "Worst Person in the World." That's tonight Countdown.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: Tonight's brief look at celebrity and entertainment includes the fine arts while still including the glorious patina of pop culture beginning with Oprah Winfrey. She's not just TV's wealthiest and most successful woman and a campaigner for Barack Obama in her own right, now she's been immortalized by an artist in all the glory of a classic bronze statue a bit more full figured and revealing than in real life. Artist Daniel Edwards says his Oprah sarcophagus salutes a woman who is the closest thing to a living deity in American culture.
Pop goddesses that Edwards has previously depicted include Britney Spears giving birth on a bearskin rug and a lifeless Paris Hilton, her Chihuahua in mourning. Thank goodness you're not wasting life on anything trivial.
And now, 20 seconds of hype with a little extra value since we haven't done one of these things, either of these things, in fact, in a while. Six weeks after preordering began, the "Special Comments" book is still the number one seller in books about the U.S. government at amazon.com. "Truth and Consequences." And remember, if you buy two, you have the makings of an improvised looking bookshelf.
The added value, the first special comment of the new year tonight on Countdown. On FISA and the telecoms. My special comment on the remarkable vista presented by a president who would rather protect the telephone companies from the law than the American people from the terrorists. Tomorrow night on the 8:00 and midnight Eastern editions of Countdown and don't forget our special 10:00 p.m. edition tomorrow following the Democratic debate. Watch it there if you must. But understand it here.
And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest. St. Rudy of 9/11 goes from front-runner to winning one delegate. CSI Rudy, next.
But first, time for Countdown's "Worst Persons in the World."
The bronze to the city of Davie, Florida. Now these are lawsuits, so the facts are to be determined but this sounds bad and so does the city's response. In the suit, it's claimed Davie dismissed 12 year veteran cop Mike Nicolettos (ph) and 21 year vet cop Greg Mize (ph) on the same day because they were unable to perform their duties. Nicolettos says that's because he had a heart attack while on duty. Mize, he says had had more than one. The city, it says it can't comment because of privacy laws.
Tonight's runner up, comedian Rush Limbaugh. Complaining that we mentioned his trouble with his touch screen voting machine freezing in the Florida primary yesterday. I am thinking he was complaining we didn't mention it enough.
Anyway, comedians big issue was this idea that somehow it was him, not the machine. I'm not an old person that doesn't understand these things. I didn't call somebody over to help.
Hey, we all know your work. We all know you've never called somebody over to help. Also, I'm not an old person who doesn't understand these things. Nice shot at your audience, pal.
But our winner, Dick Morris of Fixed News. Asked before it ended today about the campaign of John Edwards, quote, "At the moment his voters are those who can't decide which they don't like more, a black or a woman getting elected."
Once again, with his prejudiced view, and with his jaundiced view, he was born Richard S. Morris, but that's not why they call him Dick. Dick Morris, tonight's "Worst Person in the World."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: It was the baseball hall of famer George Brett who popularized it, the so-called Mendoza line. The guy with the lowest batting average who still got his name on the list published in the Sunday newspapers.
Named for Mario Mendoza, a shortstop who in his one season as a full fledged regular batted exactly .198. Still, the unofficial cut off point, the exact spot you have more than nothing, but not enough to be more than mediocre.
Our number one story on the Countdown, the Mendoza line of presidential politics would have be winning exactly one delegate. First achieved by John Connolly in his bid for the Republican nomination in 1980 at a cost of $11 million. And tonight, replicated by Rudy Giuliani, who indeed dropped out of the race, but his one supporter cost him about $50 million. As we reported to you last night, Mr. Giuliani did indeed endorsed Senator John McCain today. Clues about his impending exit were clear two days ago.
And if Giuliani's disdain for the media was absent then when he gave out signed baseballs to reporters on his campaign plane, it was back at least in some soft of Freudian way this morning. The traveling media corps asked to be in the hotel lobby in Orlando at 7:30 to be bussed to the airport for the morning flight to California, this according to our correspondent John Yang.
Problem, no busses every showed up. And so the numbers on the Giuliani campaign, he raised 47 million through the third quarter of last year, spent 30 but when the end of last year and the beginning of this year are accounted for, the campaign is expected to have spent about $50 million and for that he won one delegate in Nevada. Though Giuliani may also count in his column one so called unpledged delegate from Maine. So call it one and a half.
Time for us now to call in the national political reporter of the "Washington Post," author of "Homo Politicus," Dana Milbank. Dana, good evening.
DANA MILBANK, "WASHINGTON POST": Good evening, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Well, what are the souvenirs, actual or metaphorical that come to mind as you ponder the Giuliani campaign.
MILBANK: How much you going to give me for this one?
OLBERMANN: Nothing, actually, thank you.
MILBANK: Oh, well. I did get my baseball on the plane yesterday, but we all have a lot of souvenirs, we have got Bernie Kerik and Judith Regan (ph), but I will have the memories. Just think for the glorious better part of a year, it appeared that the Republican Party would nominate for president a thrice married serial cross dresser who lived with two gay men while being divorced with his wife who was acting in the "Vagina Monologues."
And it seems like a dream now, doesn't it?
OLBERMANN: On top of which it just occurred to me they would have had one of whose ex-wives had been a newscaster, a member of the infamous media. You and I made just the briefest of appearances in one of the last of his campaign ads, so he can't blame it on us, right, nor can we take credit for it?
MILBANK: No, if anything it was too little too late. I think it was the right tactic but too little, too late. Just as he was going down in flames Monday, he put out an ad entitle not endorsed. He was bragging about the newspapers that had endorsed McCain. But running against the media will only get you so far.
OLBERMANN: And we're analyzing - this is one of the great political collapses of all time. Are we all wet about this? Personally did he not just in fact preserve, maybe expand his little 9/11 money making schemes? The law firms and the security firms and the speaking engagement tour?
MILBANK: Sure, if anything, it will be a great boom for that. Certainly, the sheikhs of the United Arab Emirates will be happy. And let's be gracious to this man here. Unlike certain people in this race whose name begin with Willard, he has been able to keep relatively true to his original principals on abortion, on gay rights and things that really were very costly to him. At least he has left with a shred of dignity intact.
OLBERMANN: What did this mean in his endorsement of Senator McCain today? He said he would be campaigning for the senator unless he was in trouble. Are we assuming that is a joke or is there some sort of scandal looming out there?
MILBANK: Unless he is expecting the Bernie Kerik has some more photos in drag that are going to come out during discovery there, but let's hope not.
OLBERMANN: Of all the postmortems on the campaign today, many of them noted that he did not really skip New Hampshire despite that sort of meme that went out there. He put a lot of money and his time there. The numbers kept dropping, and then he spent less time there, said he probably wouldn't win there, lowered expectations, spent seven weeks in Florida and every week the numbers dropped. So there's a trend that was visible to him, is that what we're thinking happened last night?
MILBANK: Yeah. It's true. And I suspect we're all talking about the spectacular collapse now, and it was spectacular, but I believe when the history is written, the odd thing will be not the collapse, but the fact that he was able to sustain for very long merely by saying 9/11 over and over again. Then, when McCain got his footing back, it all fell apart.
OLBERMANN: And Joe Biden's coinage of that sentence, that is perhaps one of the immortal - that will be, when we talk about the Giuliani campaign, that one line he gets in the encyclopedia for 2008 - Biden's line will be .
MILBANK: Also the single achievement of the Joe Biden campaign.
OLBERMANN: I'd like to think he'd laugh about that.
Last thing, one bit of political news here. McCain and endorsements and picking up steam and all that. All throughout the day, there've been stories about the possibility that even Arnold Schwarzenegger would come out for John McCain. Does that appear to be imminent?
MILBANK: Well, there's a lot of people piling on right now. Certainly, momentum seems to have shifted McCain's way. There are reports out tonight that Romney is not very eager to invest more of his children's inheritance in a very expensive battle. Between that and the Giuliani endorsement of McCain, it's certainly going to be very hard for Romney to regain his footing.
OLBERMANN: Right. Well, we're going to have a Schwarzenegger-McCain news conference unless McCain is looking to bulk up and get some steroids, I think it is going to be about that.
Dana Milbank of the "Washington Post," MSNBC with a Rudy Giuliani baseball for sale. Contact him directly. Thank you, Dana.
MILBANK: Thanks, Keith.
OLBERMANN: That's Countdown for this the 1,736 day since the declaration of "Mission Accomplished in Iraq."
Don't forget the regular edition of Countdown tomorrow night with a special comment on FISA and the telecoms. And a special post debate edition at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, I'm Keith Olbermann, good night and good luck.
Our coverage continues now with MSNBC LIVE WITH DAN ABRAMS. Dan, good evening.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END
Guests: Jonathan Alter, E.J. Dionne, John Dean, Dana Milbank
KEITH OLBERMANN, HOST (voice over): Which of these stories will we be talking about tomorrow?
Why now? Why no endorsements? And why let his ardent and fervent supporters drift away? Some to Clinton, some to Obama, maybe some even to McCain. John Edwards withdraws from the race for the Democratic nomination for the president of the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN EDWARDS, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We do not know who will take the final steps, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, but what we do know is our Democratic Party will make history.
(END VIDEO CLIP0
OLBERMANN: And on whose steps will Edward supporters land? The poll that suggests as many as 35 percent of them had no preference. Will those who wander to Obama alter the outcome in California on Super Tuesday?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Talking tough, tallying up years in Washington. That's no substitute for judgment, and courage, and clear plans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: In the Midwest and the Southwest, like where she spoke in Arkansas, will the Edwards exes help Clinton?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I need your help now during early voting and I need it next Tuesday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: The help Obama plans the Oprah Winfrey and Ted Kennedy express. Meeting with Ted Kennedy, first the attorney general wasn't sure, then, he said it knew it would be soon be time for him to decide, then, he said he wouldn't decide. Now, the senior senator from Massachusetts finds a new way to get a fourth different answer out of Mr. Mukasey about waterboarding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED KENNEDY, (D) MASSACHUSETTS: Would waterboarding be torture if it was done to you?
JUDGE MICHAEL MUKASEY, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I would feel that it was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: A long time friend of Mr. Mukasey, also feeling it was, instead of is, Rudy, we hardly knew ye. CSI: The Giuliani campaign. And from Dick Morris' claim that the supporters of John Edwards hated women and blacks, to the comedian, Rush Limbaugh bashing old people who vote. It's a big night in Worst Persons. Comedian's voting machine freezes and he says, I didn't call somebody over to help. Rush, we knew that already. We've heard the simplicity of your intellect. All that and more now on Countdown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, (R) FMR. NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Don't let it be said we didn't pay our bills.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Good evening, this is Wednesday, January 30th, 279 days until the 2008 presidential election. Both candidates arrived at the end of their respective campaigns could not have been more different. The Republican, Rudy Giuliani completing an extraordinary free fall that saw him tumble from hero to zero. The Democrat, John Edwards ending a race in which he consistently ran third, once even second in each contest, setting the agenda for the field and failing to breakthrough. But in our fifth story on the Countdown: The finish line is the same. They're both out. But what Senator Edwards does next could have a big impact on a long slow march to the Democratic presidential nomination. Senator Edwards returning to New Orleans, the city where he began his second bid for the White House to bow out saying that on his way to the news conference, he drove past an underpass where several homeless people live and stopping to talk with them was asked by one never to forget them or their plight. In dropping out, the senator is calling on all Americans to do better.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDWARDS: I began my presidential campaign to remind the country that we, as citizens and as a government have a moral responsibility to each other and what we do together matters. We must do better, if we want to live up to the great promise of this country that we all love so much. It's appropriate that I come here today. It's time for me to step aside. We do not know who will take the final steps to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, but what we do know is our Democratic Party will make history. We will be strong, we will be unified and with our convictions and our little backbone, we will take back the White House in November.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Last night in Florida meanwhile, Mr. Giuliani having only hinted that he will be dropping out by speaking of his campaign in the past tense. Today, the former mayor of New York flying to California to announce his support for Senator McCain and to take care of some unfinished business.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIULIANI: Today, I am officially announcing my withdrawal as a candidate for president of the United States. And so, deciding who to endorse in my particular case is not difficult because if I endorsed anyone else, you would say I was flip-flopping, after having already endorsed John. John McCain is the most qualified candidate to be the next commander in chief of the United States. He is an American hero. And America could use heroes in the White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Mr. Giuliani also recognizing that should his fortunes is not improved, his first campaign event with Senator McCain might will be his last.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIULIANI: I'm going to campaign with John as much as he wants, or not, depending on if I'm in trouble or not at this point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Giuliani later, for more now on Senator Edwards exit from the race, time to bring in our own Jonathan Alter, senior editor at "Newsweek" magazine. Good evening, Jon.
JONATHAN ALTER, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Keith.
OLBERMANN: All right. Why now, why did Edwards drop out today and why in particular before Super Tuesday?
ALTER: What happened to him is, you know, he ran a dismal third in Nevada, 5 percent. And then he goes in to South Carolina, the state of his birth, and they have a debate a week ago. And he wins the debate. The other two are beating each other up. He wins. The next day, no notice, no attention. He said to some people on his staff, he felt like he had to set himself on fire to get attention. And so, at that point, he realized he really didn't have a path to the nomination or even a path to holding a lot of delegates to be a kingmaker. And he and Elizabeth started talking about backing out.
OLBERMANN: Then, I guess a stuffy duck and other self emulator can tell you can only do that lighting yourself on fire trick once. Not a good idea. They're not a collection of pet turtles, they do not move as a block, but is there any indication of where Edwards' supporters go at this point?
ALTER: You know, it's such a confusing map. I heard an interesting argument today that in California, he would help Obama, but in states like Oklahoma and Missouri, he would help Hillary. So, this is a Rubik's cube on Super Tuesday with 22 states. I don't think anybody knows for sure where's the support will go.
OLBERMANN: Apparently, the Associated Press did a survey of some sort with Yahoo! that they haven't published in full, they'd just reference this passing in wire copy today that was fascinating that suggested 40 percent were of Edwards supporters said their second choice was Clinton, 25 percent said, their second choice was Obama and the rest didn't have one. So, this is - I mean, Senator Edwards has indicated and some degree did the tag team in the later debates with Obama, but indicated that he was seem to be more in tune with Obama. Is he likely to endorse him at some point?
ALTER: I heard today that likely would be too strong. It's possible, in a sense, but wouldn't be imminent. But even his aids felt like Edwards could surprise them. So, it's a nice kind of uncertainty for all of us. We really don't know and as I think we'd all found out, Keith, hazarding predictions this year is very dangerous.
OLBERMANN: Go ahead. If not a prediction, then an interpretation. That sound byte of him, the first thing he said about winning the White House for the Democrats in the fall, included the phrase if we have a little backbone. What did he mean?
ALTER: Here's where I understand Edwards is now. He's obviously more in tune with Obama on the message of change. He's worried about whether Obama is enough of a fighter. And he wants to see him fight a little more, to see whether he's going to be tough enough to take on the Democrats before he endorses him.
OLBERMANN: So, we will get to some of this in detail later on but what Obama said at his event in Colorado where he took the Clinton's '96 campaign and sort of twisted it around and try to hit her over the head with it. That's what Edwards is looking for in this?
ALTER: Yes, I think he wants to see him a little more comfortable on the attack and a little better with the counterpunching and a sense that he can, you know, really play in the NFL in November.
OLBERMANN: Jonathan Alter of MSNBC and "Newsweek" and auditioning for football night in America. Great thanks for coming in tonight.
ALTER: Thanks, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Amid the fight over the Edwards' endorsement, if any, there's another that Senator Clinton will not, that of the Rupert Murdoch owned "New York Post". The newspaper saying in an editorial put out in its Web site today and it's paper tomorrow that while Senator Obama represents a fresh start, his opponent stands and her husband stand for deja vu all over again - a return to the opportunistic scandal-scarred, morally muddled years of the almost infinitely self-indulgent Clinton co-president. That was an endorsement by the "New York Post" of Barack Obama. For more of the endorsement factor, that and the more substantial ones and what is now to the apologies to the Gravel campaign, a two-candidate race to the Democratic nomination. Let's turn to our Craig Crawford, also of course, columnist at CQPolitics.com. Craig, good evening.
CRAIG CRAWFORD, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to see you.
OLBERMANN: All right. Rupert Murdoch held a fundraiser for Senator Clinton at one point. There's also the theory that she would be the candidate that those in sympathy with Newscorp would want to beat in the general election. Do we have any idea what happened here?
CRAWFORD: It could be a scam. I would say for Senator Obama in the primaries, beware. Conservative tabloids in Massachusetts, liberal-bearing gifts. If you get the nomination in the general, in the case of the conservative paper, they might just be thinking they'd rather see the Republicans run against you. In the case to Senator Kennedy, that may not be such an advantage come the general election with a lot of moderates and independents and even Republican-leaning independents.
OLBERMANN: So, Craig, if you're Obama, do you come out tomorrow and just saying, no thanks or just no comment or just don't address it any way, shape or form?
CRAWFORD: I think you don't address in any way, shape or form. I don't think the "New York Post" is anything you really want to brag about in this campaign. And probably he needs to move on to other endorsements as you've discussed earlier with Senator Edwards. That's the one that might make some difference.
OLBERMANN: All right and to that point, obviously, the Kennedy endorsement on Monday gave Senator Obama headlines. What momentum it had may have been at least dulled if not supported by at least paper victory in Florida last night for Senator Clinton. But what would an Edwards's endorsement do for either of this candidate at this point?
CRAWFORD: Well, I think at this point, it would help Senator Obama the most. Probably, the one who's hurt by Senator Edwards not endorsing with Senator Obama I believe because it's not going to be considered that much a ding to Senator Clinton if Edwards doesn't endorse her because nobody really expects that I think. The one they expect, if there is any would be to endorse Senator Obama. The other thing, Keith, I would note is do these endorsements really matter? One of the things I learned last night watching the returns from Florida is this inside game of the early voting. What happened in Florida is so interesting to me because Senator Clinton was way out front in the early voting before a lot of these endorsements came along. They were closer maybe even tied if not Obama ahead in the live voting. See, that's going to play out in a lot of these Super Tuesday states. A lot of the votes, I've heard as many as 500,000 have already been cast in California before these endorsements. So, there is the possibility that the early voting when Senator Clinton was way ahead is going to overwhelming this live voting that reflects the boom from these endorsements.
OLBERMANN: Having said that with so many votes still to come after Super Tuesday and the likelihood that this is not going to be wrapped up on Tuesday especially with the Democrats, the exit polls last night in Florida suggested that 51 percent of the voters there, at least the ones who're at the polls, exactly that group you're talking about, that second wave group, they are the ones who voted live said that the Kennedy endorsement was important or very important to them which is it sounds like it just a 50-50 split. When you get an endorsement that registers in double digits, it's a big endorsement, is it not?
CRAWFORD: It certainly is so long as you don't have a situation where a whole bunch of early votes have come in before that took effect. And that's what we got to at in California. This is a new phenomenon by the way, all of these early voting, you know, each cycle, we get more and more of it. And I think it does tend to benefit front-runners in races who can lock in those votes before a challenger catches on.
OLBERMANN: And speaking of John Edwards and when he could do this and what an impact it might have, what about Bill Richardson, is this correct that he's still fighting it out in his own mind between the two candidates? He's been ran out of time at some point, isn't he?
CRAWFORD: Yes and if you take it face value, he based his campaign on his anti-war position. He's very passionate about this. I don't see why - it seems like it would be a no-brainer in choosing between Senator Clinton and Senator Obama given that Obama is anti-war from the very beginning. So, if Richardson met that, I would think that would be an easy choice.
OLBERMANN: Well, you think this would be the time for him to do that.
We'll see whether or not it is.
CRAWFORD: It certainly would be. The train is pulling out.
OLBERMANN: Craig Crawford of MSNBC and CQPolitics.com, thank you, Craig.
CRAWFORD: You bet.
OLBERMANN: Something made 15,000 people try to squeeze into an Obama rally in Denver today, in an arena that could only seat half of them. What does Super Tuesday look like now without Edwards?
And: Good news, everyone. The attorney general says, the Bush administration is not allowed to rape anybody. You are watching Countdown on MSNBC.
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OLBERMANN: John Edwards out so next week goes from soup threes day to Super Tuesday. How it changes not just the polls but also how it changes the remaining pair of Democrats. And later in Worst: Dick Morris insults Edwards' supporters and comedian, Rush Limbaugh insults his own constituents, quote, "old people". Ahead, on Countdown.
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OLBERMANN: Somewhere between 10 to 20 percent of Democrats now officially without a candidate for Super Tuesday and a third of them apparently utterly undecided of a new one. Our fourth story on the Countdown: How will the momentum now swing on Super Tuesday? The crowd showing up to welcome Barack Obama at Denver University, so huge that in addition 9,500 people inside the hockey arena there, another 4,500 were crammed into an overflow room. Several thousand more could apparently only stand outside. With Caroline Kennedy there, Obama taking the opportunity to twist Bill Clinton's 1996 campaign slogan and hit Hillary Clinton over the head with it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I know it is tempting after another president named George Bush. This is our second one now. So, I know it's tempting to simply turn back the clock, to look back wards and try to build a bridge back to the 20th century. It is time for a generation of leadership because the old politics just won't do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Senator Clinton fresh off her self-declared victory in Florida even though no delegates were awarded in that state, now stopping in her old home state of Arkansas. And give that exit polls in Florida showed that she won biggest among an absentee voters and those who made up their minds quite a while ago. It's no surprise that she's again appealing to early voters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I know that the next president needs to get up every day and think about you. That's what this election should be about, solving your problems, making sure your job is safe, giving you the health care you and your family need, taking on energy and the environment, we can do this. But, I need your help now, during early voting and I need it next Tuesday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Senator Clinton also apparently needing help in her new home turf next week while she's still in the lead in New York and New Jersey. Apparently, she's in danger of losing Connecticut. A poll taken that night that Obama won South Carolina, showing them neck in neck with 40 percent each in Connecticut with 11 percent of Edwards. Those are 11 percent of Edward's total now up for grab as well as the Keith - margin of error plus undecided total at 9 percent. It is anybody's race. Nationally, the gap is likewise narrowing. Gallup showing that Obama is now only six points behind Clinton, 36 to 42, 12 percent of the voters were for Edwards. They are now free as free isotopes and a K number is 11. I'm joined by, E.J. Dionne, a columnist from the "Washington Post" and author of "Souled out: Reclaiming faith and politics after the religious right." E.J., good evening.
E.J. DIONNE, WASHINGTON POST: Good evening, sir. Good to be with you. Thanks for showing the book.
OLBERMANN: You're welcome, good luck with it. Given how quickly opinion are changing seemingly on the ground not the least the disappearance essentially today of one of the candidates, can we glean anything about Tuesday next from those poll numbers?
DIONNE: Of course not, but we'll do it anyway. I mean, I think what you've seen are three big events for Obama, his South Carolina blowout, the backlash against President Clinton's campaigning against him and now, this Kennedy love fest, which is a big deal. And so, you're seeing at the Gallup numbers really striking because that gap between them is closed from something like 20 points ten days ago, down to six points.
But, Hillary Clinton is adjusting to what happened. They know that one of the worst things that happened to them is the reappearance of that word Billary. And so, we can joke as our friend, Dana Milbank did that it was a stunt worthy of Evil Knievel when she turned that ersatz primary last night into a real deal. But the fact is, she got a lot of media interviews, a lot of media attention. And her point was, I'm in charge of this campaign. And they have asked Bill Clinton to campaign for her with the same enthusiasm and mellowness shown by Fred Thompson in support of his own candidacy. So, they pulled him back, and they are hoping this adjustment works. And so, I think it's - the momentum is moving to Obama and whether the Clinton adjustment can help them push it back.
OLBERMANN: Now, if the Edwards - just based on the last national poll, with Edwards at 11 percent, for that break in Obama's favor, it really has to break almost entirely to him even how close that number's become. He'd have to get that nine out of every 11 Edwards' supporters to move into the lead there. If Edwards wants to influence the nomination, how long can he wait to endorse either of them? I mean, he can't wait past Tuesday, can he?
DIONNE: Well, first of all, in the numbers, you've seen a real shift already. So, if Obama simply keeps the trend going the way it is, he doesn't need all of the Edwards votes. But you know, I don't think this race is going to be decided next Tuesday. I think it's very likely somebody comes out ahead, somebody else wins enough delegates and we move forward. There are some states later on where John Edwards' message about working class people and the problems of the poor and the economy could resonate, Ohio in March, Pennsylvania even in April. So, I think he has time, if he wants to make a difference. Yes, he'd be very helpful to somebody, presumably Obama now, but I think he can also make his views known and have an impact later.
OLBERMANN: Speaking about views know, what about the impacts on tone, on positioning on issues, John Edwards is out, that permits or demands that Obama and Clinton say what? Where does it change the actual rhetoric of the campaign?
DIONNE: Well, you know, in some ways, I think John Edwards effect on the rhetoric has already happened. I think he really pushed both Clinton and Obama in a somewhat more populous direction. He got them to talk more about the poor, more about people suffering in this economy. I think for Obama, the challenge for him is to pick up his share of the white working class vote. That's been a strong area for Clinton. And so, I think he needs yet another injection of John Edwards to him. For Hillary Clinton, what she needs to do is with some of her fighting rhetoric against the Republicans, she needs to pick up the people who responded to John Edwards, the trial lawyer saying, he wouldn't sit down and negotiate with those people. And so, you know, my hunch is that Edwards' withdrawal will help Clinton a little in the south and help Obama elsewhere.
OLBERMANN: E.J. Dionne of the "Washington Post," his latest book is "Souled out," that is Souled. Thank you, E.J.
DIONNE: Thank you, Keith.
OLBERMANN: And ever since Joe Biden's unforgettable line of about a noun, a verb and 9/11, it's been straight downhill for Rudy Giuliani. He's out.
And: I do not like them in a box; I do not like them with a fox. I do not like them here or there. I do not like them anywhere. I do not green eggs without ham.
But first: The latest headlines breaking in the administration's 50 other scandals - Bushed.
Number three: Perpetuity-gate. The president with a signing statement rewriting a law. He signed the National Defense Authorization Act which bars funding for permanent basis in Iraq. The president is just going to ignore that part because he already signed his own treaty for those, no, nobody gets to ratify the treaty either.
Number two: Gonzo-gate. Scott J. Bloch, the head of the office of Special Council investigating a former attorney general, Alberto Gonzalez turned the U.S. Attorney's offices into political purging operations. As now written, Gonzalez's successor, to say that Mr. Mukasey's Department of Justice has repeatedly impeded his investigation denying him access to documents and not answering his questions.
And number one: Terry Gilliam-gate: For decades, presidents have showed one courtesy and one courtesy alone to members of Congress when they asked them to approve the budget. Free copies of the budget. Last year, the total was about 3,000 copies for members to peruse, maybe, while on the john and for their staffers to mark up. Not anymore, says Mr. Bush, you can read it online or we'll sell you a copy for $200. Why do I call this Terry Gilliam-gate, remember Gilliam's movie, "Brazil" which a future government not only abducts and tortures its citizens, but in one case, abducts and tortures the wrong citizen and then sends his widow a bill for the torture.
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OLBERMANN: Two hundred and ten years ago today, modern American politics was born. And for a debate over the impeachment of a senator, Republican congressman, Matthew Lyon was shouting about the malign influence of Connecticut politicians. One of them, federalist congressman, Roger Griswold heard what Lyon said, strolled over to him and spat in his face. For two weeks, the representatives disputed each other's honor as gentlemen and muttered about duels until finally Congressman Griswold went over to Congressman Lyons' desk and attacked him. First with a cane, then fireplace tongs. Coincidentally, 67 years ago today, Vice President Dick Cheney was born. Let's play "Oddball."
We begin in a small Mexican village where this chicken is producing predyed Easter eggs. This is Bobanita (ph), who despite being an otherwise normal looking bird is laying eggs that have green shells. Bobanita's owners have no explanation for it. They say the green eggs have been showing up since December and the chicken eats a normal tortilla and chicken feed diet. Scientists say there's no difference nutritionally between the innards of a green egg and traditional white or brown ones. A fact that has reassured all the omelet loving town folk except one guy named Samuel Losoy (ph) who refuses to eat the damn things.
To Los Angeles, where beginning today you can get your weed from a vending machine. I knew it would come to this. At the Herbal Nutrition Center, I forgot the change, man, this machine is the first in the nation that allows medical marijuana users to withdraw up to an ounce of Maui Wowie a month. In case you're wondering, every day stoners need not apply. The machine has its own guard. It requires a legal prescription and before you plunk in your quarters, you get photographed and fingerprinted. The machine's owner explains the elaborate security.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFED MALE: It's the highest verification that any dispensary has ever had.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: Dude. He said highest. Huhuhuh.
The attorney general and waterboarding and whether it's torture from I don't know to I don't know yet to I'm not going to tell you to today, his fourth different answer. And in worst persons, another reminder of why Dick Morris might not be short for Richard.
But first time for Countdown's top three "Best Persons in the World."
Number three, best irrelevant endorsement, Hulk Hogan. Hogan says Senator Obama does not judge Americans based on, quote, "the people dress." If you were Hulk Hogan and you dressed like that, this would be your criterion too.
Number two. Best rage against the radio programming machine man, Paul Webster Feinstein of KOOP in Austin, Texas. A volunteer disc jockey on the station's Internet program. The program director apparently changed the list of jazz selections Mr. Feinstein was to play on his program, so Mr. Feinstein set fire to the radio station. He could go to jail for 20 years for that. More Django!
And number one, Jennifer Hunt of Sweetwater, Tennessee. Police say a passing squad car saw her lurking around a church early Saturday morning. The officer asked her what she was doing there. She explained she was relieving herself. That's when the crowbar she apparently had been using to try to break into the church fell out of her pants. Is that a tire iron in your pocket or are you just glad to see the bathroom?
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OLBERMANN: I miss Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. At least every time he defied the Constitution and the Congress, he always said the same thing. In our third story tonight, Michael Mukasey has today given his fourth answer about waterboarding. In a letter to the Judiciary Committee yesterday, Mr. Mukasey mutated from saying he knew at some point he would have to say whether waterboarding is always torture, i.e., illegal, to no, he had no intention of choosing. Much of today's expected outrage over that, however, missing the astonishing fact that Mukasey after reviewing secret DOJ legal rationales defending waterboarding also refuses to outright endorse Mr. Bush's prior use of waterboarding. Perhaps more astonishing still, in the course of the waterboarding debate, Mukasey, the nation's top law man says Mr. Bush may have broken federal law on at least two more occasion occasions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL MUKASEY, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Torture as you know, is now unlawful under American law. I can't contemplate any situation in which this president would assert Article II authority to do something the law forbids.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER, (R) PA: Well, he did just that in violating the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. He did just that in disregarding the expressed mandate of the National Security Act to notify the intelligence committees. Didn't he?
MUKASEY: I think we are now in a situation where both those issues have been brought within statutes. And that's the procedure going forward.
SPECTER: That's not the point. The point is that he acted in violation of statues, didn't he?
MUKASEY: I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: And while refusing, astonishingly, to rule out future waterboarding, Mukasey did define some depth to which even Mr. Bush would not stoop.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED KENNEDY, (D) MA: Would water boarding be torture if it was done to you?
MUKASEY: Um, I would feel that it was.
KENNEDY: Are there any interrogation techniques that you would find to be illegal, fundamentally illegal?
MUKASEY: There are statutes that describe specifically what we may not do. We may not maim, we may not rape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OLBERMANN: At this point let's turn to John Dean, author of "Broken Government, How Republican Rule Destroyed the Legislative, Executive and Judicial Branches." And of course the White House Counsel to Richard Nixon. John, great thanks again for your time tonight.
JOHN DEAN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: Thank you, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Would your old boss, Mr. Nixon kept his a little job longer, if he had offered to Congress and the people, a defense, not I am not a crook, but I am not a rapist?
DEAN: He tried the I'm not a crook, but that didn't seem work. But you know, Keith, in his darkest moment, I can't imagine Nixon tolerating torture. I can really say that in his defense. We are on such a different playing field with this presidency.
OLBERMANN: How solid is the playing field on which Mr. Mukasey stands when he says his position precludes him from venturing an opinion. Should we not be expecting him more than others to say America does not have a set of secret laws somewhere and we are going to prosecute those who break the laws, especially if they do so under official cover?
DEAN: One would hope so. Your question, how solid is the base? There is absolutely no base for what he is saying. It's a conspicuous ruse to the committee. The committee recognized it today. I watched a good bit of those hearings. They were not buying the claims, they were not buying his stone walling. And they were very disappointed in him, those who even sponsored him and helped him get his seat are now showing remorse at least in the way he's handling this issue so important to the country, torture.
OLBERMANN: If he doesn't know, if actually has to answer "I don't know" whether the president of the U.S. violated two federal laws, is that the not the bells go off in an attorney general's mind kind of thing? That's the kind of thing you have to look into. Maybe you have a staffer write you a memo about. Is that not an automatic?
DEAN: I've got to tell you there's a long tradition of attorneys general not investigating their bosses. This is not a new trend. What they should be doing and have done in the past is try make sure their bosses are not breaking the law, to give them advice and counsel to give them away. And I think that's the sort of opinion I'm surprised he didn't offer the committee today. To say something to the effect, listen, I've told him this is something out of bounds and this is something you can't do.
OLBERMANN: To some degree, I think in fairness to him, he did say that regarding things that have been brought under statute, referring obviously to some of the FISA stuff, spectacularly in that instance. But that insistence, you look forward, you have a blind eye toward possible past misdemeanors by the man for whom you work. Does that tell us he views his job principally as protection of the president rather than protection of the Constitution?
DEAN: Well, I think that's what we have. He's certainly over there as a caretaker attorney general. It's not a long term he's in for. And he's there to be something of a firewall for the president.
This is, he's playing the role of judge as to what he thinks is across the boundary line and not across the boundary line. We can only hope, Keith, that indeed his advice in private is stronger than his advice he's willing to share.
OLBERMANN: So, lastly, John, we've had, as I said, four separate statements from him essentially about waterboarding as torture. Tell me what sort of attorney goes from, before his hearings, his confirmation hearings that he wasn't sure, he couldn't define, he hasn't been read in on it, then he said about a month ago he knew the time was coming he would have to make some sort of statement, then last week he said I'm not going to make a determination on this one way or another, I'm not going to say it officially, now this latest answer, if it was done to him, yeah, he would feel like it was.
What kind of attorney general could give you four answers to the same legal question?
DEAN: Well, I think what he's obviously trying to do is avoid the question. As soon as he answers the question and the answer is so conspicuous to everybody almost non-lawyers can figure this out. That under the broad terms of that statute, it could well include waterboarding and probably does include waterboarding.
So once he crosses that threshold, he has got to be asking, well, can I be looking at the president and vice president and others for war crimes. And that's where he doesn't want to go.
OLBERMANN: All right. Well, I'm going to close where I began. I miss Alberto Gonzalez and I miss Richard Nixon too. John Dean, author of "Broken Government and the Voice of Our Broken Government" segments. Great thanks as always, John.
DEAN: Good night, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Something seems to be broken here. What the hell is that thing? What the hell is that thing? I know what it is.
And what's this thing? Why, it's comedian Rush Limbaugh. Back for more in tonight's edition of "Worst Person in the World." That's tonight Countdown.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: Tonight's brief look at celebrity and entertainment includes the fine arts while still including the glorious patina of pop culture beginning with Oprah Winfrey. She's not just TV's wealthiest and most successful woman and a campaigner for Barack Obama in her own right, now she's been immortalized by an artist in all the glory of a classic bronze statue a bit more full figured and revealing than in real life. Artist Daniel Edwards says his Oprah sarcophagus salutes a woman who is the closest thing to a living deity in American culture.
Pop goddesses that Edwards has previously depicted include Britney Spears giving birth on a bearskin rug and a lifeless Paris Hilton, her Chihuahua in mourning. Thank goodness you're not wasting life on anything trivial.
And now, 20 seconds of hype with a little extra value since we haven't done one of these things, either of these things, in fact, in a while. Six weeks after preordering began, the "Special Comments" book is still the number one seller in books about the U.S. government at amazon.com. "Truth and Consequences." And remember, if you buy two, you have the makings of an improvised looking bookshelf.
The added value, the first special comment of the new year tonight on Countdown. On FISA and the telecoms. My special comment on the remarkable vista presented by a president who would rather protect the telephone companies from the law than the American people from the terrorists. Tomorrow night on the 8:00 and midnight Eastern editions of Countdown and don't forget our special 10:00 p.m. edition tomorrow following the Democratic debate. Watch it there if you must. But understand it here.
And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest. St. Rudy of 9/11 goes from front-runner to winning one delegate. CSI Rudy, next.
But first, time for Countdown's "Worst Persons in the World."
The bronze to the city of Davie, Florida. Now these are lawsuits, so the facts are to be determined but this sounds bad and so does the city's response. In the suit, it's claimed Davie dismissed 12 year veteran cop Mike Nicolettos (ph) and 21 year vet cop Greg Mize (ph) on the same day because they were unable to perform their duties. Nicolettos says that's because he had a heart attack while on duty. Mize, he says had had more than one. The city, it says it can't comment because of privacy laws.
Tonight's runner up, comedian Rush Limbaugh. Complaining that we mentioned his trouble with his touch screen voting machine freezing in the Florida primary yesterday. I am thinking he was complaining we didn't mention it enough.
Anyway, comedians big issue was this idea that somehow it was him, not the machine. I'm not an old person that doesn't understand these things. I didn't call somebody over to help.
Hey, we all know your work. We all know you've never called somebody over to help. Also, I'm not an old person who doesn't understand these things. Nice shot at your audience, pal.
But our winner, Dick Morris of Fixed News. Asked before it ended today about the campaign of John Edwards, quote, "At the moment his voters are those who can't decide which they don't like more, a black or a woman getting elected."
Once again, with his prejudiced view, and with his jaundiced view, he was born Richard S. Morris, but that's not why they call him Dick. Dick Morris, tonight's "Worst Person in the World."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OLBERMANN: It was the baseball hall of famer George Brett who popularized it, the so-called Mendoza line. The guy with the lowest batting average who still got his name on the list published in the Sunday newspapers.
Named for Mario Mendoza, a shortstop who in his one season as a full fledged regular batted exactly .198. Still, the unofficial cut off point, the exact spot you have more than nothing, but not enough to be more than mediocre.
Our number one story on the Countdown, the Mendoza line of presidential politics would have be winning exactly one delegate. First achieved by John Connolly in his bid for the Republican nomination in 1980 at a cost of $11 million. And tonight, replicated by Rudy Giuliani, who indeed dropped out of the race, but his one supporter cost him about $50 million. As we reported to you last night, Mr. Giuliani did indeed endorsed Senator John McCain today. Clues about his impending exit were clear two days ago.
And if Giuliani's disdain for the media was absent then when he gave out signed baseballs to reporters on his campaign plane, it was back at least in some soft of Freudian way this morning. The traveling media corps asked to be in the hotel lobby in Orlando at 7:30 to be bussed to the airport for the morning flight to California, this according to our correspondent John Yang.
Problem, no busses every showed up. And so the numbers on the Giuliani campaign, he raised 47 million through the third quarter of last year, spent 30 but when the end of last year and the beginning of this year are accounted for, the campaign is expected to have spent about $50 million and for that he won one delegate in Nevada. Though Giuliani may also count in his column one so called unpledged delegate from Maine. So call it one and a half.
Time for us now to call in the national political reporter of the "Washington Post," author of "Homo Politicus," Dana Milbank. Dana, good evening.
DANA MILBANK, "WASHINGTON POST": Good evening, Keith.
OLBERMANN: Well, what are the souvenirs, actual or metaphorical that come to mind as you ponder the Giuliani campaign.
MILBANK: How much you going to give me for this one?
OLBERMANN: Nothing, actually, thank you.
MILBANK: Oh, well. I did get my baseball on the plane yesterday, but we all have a lot of souvenirs, we have got Bernie Kerik and Judith Regan (ph), but I will have the memories. Just think for the glorious better part of a year, it appeared that the Republican Party would nominate for president a thrice married serial cross dresser who lived with two gay men while being divorced with his wife who was acting in the "Vagina Monologues."
And it seems like a dream now, doesn't it?
OLBERMANN: On top of which it just occurred to me they would have had one of whose ex-wives had been a newscaster, a member of the infamous media. You and I made just the briefest of appearances in one of the last of his campaign ads, so he can't blame it on us, right, nor can we take credit for it?
MILBANK: No, if anything it was too little too late. I think it was the right tactic but too little, too late. Just as he was going down in flames Monday, he put out an ad entitle not endorsed. He was bragging about the newspapers that had endorsed McCain. But running against the media will only get you so far.
OLBERMANN: And we're analyzing - this is one of the great political collapses of all time. Are we all wet about this? Personally did he not just in fact preserve, maybe expand his little 9/11 money making schemes? The law firms and the security firms and the speaking engagement tour?
MILBANK: Sure, if anything, it will be a great boom for that. Certainly, the sheikhs of the United Arab Emirates will be happy. And let's be gracious to this man here. Unlike certain people in this race whose name begin with Willard, he has been able to keep relatively true to his original principals on abortion, on gay rights and things that really were very costly to him. At least he has left with a shred of dignity intact.
OLBERMANN: What did this mean in his endorsement of Senator McCain today? He said he would be campaigning for the senator unless he was in trouble. Are we assuming that is a joke or is there some sort of scandal looming out there?
MILBANK: Unless he is expecting the Bernie Kerik has some more photos in drag that are going to come out during discovery there, but let's hope not.
OLBERMANN: Of all the postmortems on the campaign today, many of them noted that he did not really skip New Hampshire despite that sort of meme that went out there. He put a lot of money and his time there. The numbers kept dropping, and then he spent less time there, said he probably wouldn't win there, lowered expectations, spent seven weeks in Florida and every week the numbers dropped. So there's a trend that was visible to him, is that what we're thinking happened last night?
MILBANK: Yeah. It's true. And I suspect we're all talking about the spectacular collapse now, and it was spectacular, but I believe when the history is written, the odd thing will be not the collapse, but the fact that he was able to sustain for very long merely by saying 9/11 over and over again. Then, when McCain got his footing back, it all fell apart.
OLBERMANN: And Joe Biden's coinage of that sentence, that is perhaps one of the immortal - that will be, when we talk about the Giuliani campaign, that one line he gets in the encyclopedia for 2008 - Biden's line will be .
MILBANK: Also the single achievement of the Joe Biden campaign.
OLBERMANN: I'd like to think he'd laugh about that.
Last thing, one bit of political news here. McCain and endorsements and picking up steam and all that. All throughout the day, there've been stories about the possibility that even Arnold Schwarzenegger would come out for John McCain. Does that appear to be imminent?
MILBANK: Well, there's a lot of people piling on right now. Certainly, momentum seems to have shifted McCain's way. There are reports out tonight that Romney is not very eager to invest more of his children's inheritance in a very expensive battle. Between that and the Giuliani endorsement of McCain, it's certainly going to be very hard for Romney to regain his footing.
OLBERMANN: Right. Well, we're going to have a Schwarzenegger-McCain news conference unless McCain is looking to bulk up and get some steroids, I think it is going to be about that.
Dana Milbank of the "Washington Post," MSNBC with a Rudy Giuliani baseball for sale. Contact him directly. Thank you, Dana.
MILBANK: Thanks, Keith.
OLBERMANN: That's Countdown for this the 1,736 day since the declaration of "Mission Accomplished in Iraq."
Don't forget the regular edition of Countdown tomorrow night with a special comment on FISA and the telecoms. And a special post debate edition at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, I'm Keith Olbermann, good night and good luck.
Our coverage continues now with MSNBC LIVE WITH DAN ABRAMS. Dan, good evening.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END
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